From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mail-pj1-x102e.google.com (mail-pj1-x102e.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::102e]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by lists.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 7A4FF3B2A4 for ; Tue, 31 Oct 2023 13:37:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: by mail-pj1-x102e.google.com with SMTP id 98e67ed59e1d1-280200949c3so2779272a91.0 for ; Tue, 31 Oct 2023 10:37:31 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20230601; t=1698773850; x=1699378650; darn=lists.bufferbloat.net; h=content-transfer-encoding:cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from :in-reply-to:references:mime-version:from:to:cc:subject:date :message-id:reply-to; bh=d5IXUjoeb3WbGnJ1gO9WQg+JrO4OQQ/yR4tS0rKQib0=; b=RclKT5RU1HA01A0q0RbJohxaUQHTiR4e/5pbU4E8Vko6afEQn+jrCIUlqx0sK+pMIt KaebxaOUrJv2Zk6/el09DaAsaT/1OHkCaxMaYB7uj4JsSpTGTsKrSuT8P6jFgfC1+kDF +XQymqXIjaZgtf79QmkN2hOSF5CMJqmSFqPxdoS8BmWq4jtl2OWr0tMpNeXapouk7auk TXVG+rhLzbOOB9UIRq4AN6h0+7AdUupq2noSyxyGdhQpFOphUGHqkGIXHIOqr/90Pwxt tbcKSkgweVpigHR+qH7BN2BIEJYZgkmDkHf90G8nzTYoAdH10RdkLEkzEdgpBq+EbkLm lbBg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1698773850; x=1699378650; h=content-transfer-encoding:cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from :in-reply-to:references:mime-version:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc :subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=d5IXUjoeb3WbGnJ1gO9WQg+JrO4OQQ/yR4tS0rKQib0=; b=g5EFJrmHcQrrTRz23mWZuxm/JYzsg0lKJ3NTdg/eL/SxeMPRd8jo2GGrUkidFixnFm tPysJONPpZqDw0+36sMTNNBstKS4A4+7y3Hg/sKDdqU3WrxQeP/ikeZiV32mzRMQh1LI RBbcnIHYUdy5iHYZOevN7f3nbjRFz5HToktegEpI6Rt6Y2dGkmqJu4+DTDs0Hga2BIbK h5mUtZautRJPey8v/he6eZs2vPypyuDVAaIMZiuw3pOSTzmeLt9XW/AcyzICXrseO5n2 1JikKw+Demr1Z2oNPG4Cz+LA3WEl/rESKr6zs4lOopGMQ+KF6q3wjzqIxOy8Zt+iL/BF /l2g== X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0YxXQoaFWaRPeaItmWVLA9+IFYvWNgdvEs+HUdXUPBm/9sM0pyvH 3ysfpvDr0Fl1A+8G8Q6HERoOmxJC2ZWoRdP2GuiWS/bF4mk= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IHTJkB7b1aMFkqSAdFPVeK58uyZLYp0WrRnyDhsuCBA8CeS+wp0JGDa9/d2w6sQUoVoeZXSiCKtySGuN8kHWxw= X-Received: by 2002:a17:90a:2a4a:b0:27d:8d42:6def with SMTP id d10-20020a17090a2a4a00b0027d8d426defmr9965743pjg.34.1698773849934; Tue, 31 Oct 2023 10:37:29 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <2822930F-C30B-4557-B248-78D78DF6F861@gmx.de> In-Reply-To: From: Dave Taht Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2023 10:37:16 -0700 Message-ID: To: =?UTF-8?Q?Network_Neutrality_is_back=21_Let=C2=B4s_make_the_technical_asp?= =?UTF-8?Q?ects_heard_this_time=21?= Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: Re: [NNagain] NN review in the UK X-BeenThere: nnagain@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: =?utf-8?q?Network_Neutrality_is_back!_Let=C2=B4s_make_the_technical_aspects_heard_this_time!?= List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2023 17:37:31 -0000 I am still looking for the history of this morphing... https://decoded.legal/blog/2023/10/ofcoms-new-guidance-on-open-internet--ne= t-neutrality-including-zero-rating-and-traffic-management/ On Tue, Oct 31, 2023 at 9:33=E2=80=AFAM Dave Taht wro= te: > > This link is working now. > > https://www.ofcom.org.uk/consultations-and-statements/category-1/net-neut= rality-review > > I had reached out to multiple folk I knew to fix it. It is hugely > ironic that we have run into multiple examples of both intentional and > unintentional censorship so far in our quest to find truths about > network neutrality all around the globe. > > Annoyed, I set up a server in london, and mirrored the site myself via > "wget -m" - a command line utility that lets you make complete copies > of websites shipped as part of most operating systems. ... Back in the > day when the open internet meant you can copy a website and read it > offline, easily... > > And then I shipped it all to my own laptop (where I can index it > myself), via another quite common tool, rsync. It took a while to do > that - started the rsync in america, and then finished it at a coffee > shop in vancouver... then I read the 5 pdfs and deleted the thing > because I needed the disk space. > > Seeing so many newer folk having missed JPB's observation that the > internet is a "copying machine" ... if only more people would point > out to those folk these basic tools exist, that cannot be banned, and > are genuinely useful.... > > OK... so... > > This now globally(? please test) accessible cloudflare instance for > ofcom is now throwing an error 429 (too many requests) so I no longer > have that ability to quickly mirror it that I had had only a few days > ago. Is this an improvement? > > Anyway, I can finally get towards commenting on the actual text. But > not today. I would like to see various statements written about > network neutrality in 2005, 2010, 2015, because it seems to be the > definition in the ofcom docs has morphed a lot towards being... > "reasonable", whatever that means. > > > > On Sat, Oct 28, 2023 at 3:01=E2=80=AFAM Sebastian Moeller via Nnagain > wrote: > > > > Dear All, > > > > I have been pointed at Ofcom's statement on Net neutrality for October = 2023: > > > > https://www.ofcom.org.uk/consultations-and-statements/category-1/net-ne= utrality-review > > > > Here is the meat of that statement sans the links at the end (the email= will be clasified as spam if it contains too many links, I hope the one ab= ove does not trigger it yet): > > > > Statement published 26 October 2023 > > > > Net neutrality supports the =E2=80=98open internet=E2=80=99, ensuring t= hat users of the internet (both consumers and those making and distributing= content) are in control of what they see and do online =E2=80=93 not the b= roadband or mobile providers (otherwise known as internet service providers= or ISPs). The net neutrality rules make sure that the traffic carried acro= ss broadband and mobile networks is treated equally and particular content = or services are not prioritised or slowed down in a way that favours some o= ver others. We want to make sure that as technology evolves and more of our= lives move online, net neutrality continues to support innovation, investm= ent and growth, by both content providers and ISPs. > > > > The current net neutrality rules are set out in legislation. Any change= s to the rules in future would be a matter for Government and Parliament. O= fcom is responsible for monitoring and ensuring compliance with the rules a= nd providing guidance on how ISPs should follow them. In 2021 we started a = review of net neutrality. > > > > Our review has found that, in general, it has worked well and supported= consumer choice as well as enabling content providers to deliver their con= tent and services to consumers. However, there are specific areas where we = provide more clarity in our guidance to enable ISPs to innovate and manage = their networks more efficiently, to improve consumer outcome. > > > > =E2=80=A2 ISPs can offer premium quality retail offers: Allowin= g ISPs to provide premium quality retail packages means they can better mee= t some consumers=E2=80=99 needs. For example, people who use high quality v= irtual reality applications may want to buy a premium quality service, whil= e users who mainly stream and browse the internet can buy a cheaper package= . Our updated guidance clarifies that ISPs can offer premium packages, for = example offering low latency, as long as they are sufficiently clear to cus= tomers about what they can expect from the services they buy. > > =E2=80=A2 ISPs can develop new =E2=80=98specialised services=E2= =80=99: New 5G and full fibre networks offer the opportunity for ISPs to in= novate and develop their services. Our updated guidance clarifies when they= can provide =E2=80=98specialised services=E2=80=99 to deliver specific con= tent and applications that need to be optimised, which might include real t= ime communications, virtual reality and driverless vehicles. > > =E2=80=A2 ISPs can use traffic management measures to manage th= eir networks: Traffic management can be used by ISPs on their networks, so = that a good quality of service is maintained for consumers. Our updated gui= dance clarifies when and how ISPs can use traffic management, including the= different approaches they can take and how they can distinguish between di= fferent categories of traffic based on their technical requirements. > > =E2=80=A2 Most zero-rating offers will be allowed: Zero-rating = is where the data used by certain websites or apps is not counted towards a= customer=E2=80=99s overall data allowance. Our updated guidance clarifies = that we will generally allow these offers, while setting out the limited ci= rcumstances where we might have concerns. > > > > > > I note however, that when I try to access that page today I get a cload= flare error: > > Sorry, you have been blocked > > You are unable to access ofcom.squizedge.cloud > > > > Which might indicate that some parts of the network are not acting in g= ood faith (or I was just unlucky with my current IP address) > > > > I also note (as Ofcom does itself) that since Brexit the UK is not boun= d to the EU's regulation 2015/2120 (see https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-con= tent/de/TXT/?uri=3DCELEX%3A32015R2120 ). > > > > Regards > > Sebastian > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Nnagain mailing list > > Nnagain@lists.bufferbloat.net > > https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/nnagain > > > > -- > Oct 30: https://netdevconf.info/0x17/news/the-maestro-and-the-music-bof.h= tml > Dave T=C3=A4ht CSO, LibreQos --=20 Oct 30: https://netdevconf.info/0x17/news/the-maestro-and-the-music-bof.htm= l Dave T=C3=A4ht CSO, LibreQos