From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mail-pg1-x531.google.com (mail-pg1-x531.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::531]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by lists.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 6BEA93B29D for ; Sat, 7 Oct 2023 17:22:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: by mail-pg1-x531.google.com with SMTP id 41be03b00d2f7-565334377d0so2639774a12.2 for ; Sat, 07 Oct 2023 14:22:24 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20230601; t=1696713743; x=1697318543; darn=lists.bufferbloat.net; h=content-transfer-encoding:to:subject:message-id:date:from :mime-version:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=ssZ4f17R1ajseNrwSWEN8Kbx71ame73WCm+4E2rj+Lk=; b=mLBDfSCYIS1ub/mTVZcD/6CzGAoRTc0DnT6+CspjQMMcMXzZ2VYK/3Q4AjZM82d5Hj Rza0YTWw7Q2tvC1P3dgNqEHePhMbdNAnbG8oWPknBYdll1R4vsgc8ESbCv0ON2AfmxHr kYp6Vd7q8bwBVBJkuo9NxDteogDwoPtTEnO0OPyo7MKCfc25wJCZI7Bx9qWKzIci5c1U 9u59eRq8dMcbpy+YzsxYKNKVQT53A9/lcjcaOZSVb0u3g4J/k5itIrdf4ab4v0nnG3mF acCaLMPzIOeLOcXQe13atiZsedRY4Nd3iII9GLNiml1DVR3wIKkjCYxezja41aP3xe8o 4HSg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1696713743; x=1697318543; h=content-transfer-encoding:to:subject:message-id:date:from :mime-version:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id :reply-to; bh=ssZ4f17R1ajseNrwSWEN8Kbx71ame73WCm+4E2rj+Lk=; b=OFao0Kdby8uYTdGvLt0ttIA9hr0AFRrIhGVL8bKmD83Pn4m06Kck9oxixk4kdATysz iBEFhykirFKzmS0s+vl8thT69Z15HdlFJt9Eu4ppWh+ikwtRWhlSH0MkRzcJOHOFwN1q CVOxGBpIuBHMB9tgapim3KjB4gh34vvDjyn3KEW/AvIqlpRGUbHvo9Rd5w656mxWfIOP A/2bm5L1ue4lAJa5Pkbanrr3HmJeX49gpNw+xPVOzVPsq8vf3Vp6aToyyeEpb3KSga7n AZE0H1bCShMmXY7bEnYPy9GRI53pxA4oPJWxaa4UGRZvxsHEzc42Hcb57oftU5g4EAA4 NAeA== X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0YyWOFDMwWYDxbCnS6/xNMZQl+7urtFG3VQ8HCUMm7DMdd9ttv6T Zc0qocPo4tOJP3U+Ggthr9zAP7+o4X6k89j6t3QXaqf6p7E= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IFcMHlg5SAMd3GTJRtAZ/2X1JKmii6Q6ShMvg3Vy7GsxuKB0JACU5TBOx7rlVqKT7cgeHNO0ftr31+VR2P7QZM= X-Received: by 2002:a05:6a20:3cac:b0:15d:9ee7:1816 with SMTP id b44-20020a056a203cac00b0015d9ee71816mr14662044pzj.10.1696713742843; Sat, 07 Oct 2023 14:22:22 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Dave Taht Date: Sat, 7 Oct 2023 14:22:10 -0700 Message-ID: To: =?UTF-8?Q?Network_Neutrality_is_back=21_Let=C2=B4s_make_the_technical_asp?= =?UTF-8?Q?ects_heard_this_time=21?= Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: [NNagain] The non-death of DSL X-BeenThere: nnagain@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: =?utf-8?q?Network_Neutrality_is_back!_Let=C2=B4s_make_the_technical_aspects_heard_this_time!?= List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 07 Oct 2023 21:22:24 -0000 I have a lot to unpack from this: https://docs.fcc.gov/public/attachments/DOC-397257A1.pdf the first two on my mind from 2005 are: "FCC adopted its first open internet policy" and "Competitiveness" As best as I recall, (and please correct me), this led essentially to the departure of all the 3rd party DSL providers from the field. I had found something referencing this interpretation that I cannot find right now, but I do clearly remember all the DSL services you could buy from in the early 00s, and how few you can buy from now. Obviously there are many other possible root causes. DSL continued to get better and evolve, but it definately suffers from many reports of degraded copper quality, but does an estimate exist for how much working DSL is left? Q0) How much DSL is in the EU? Q1) How much DSL is left in the USA? Q2) What form is it? (VDSL, etc?) Did competition in DSL vanish because of or not of an FCC related order? --=20 Oct 30: https://netdevconf.info/0x17/news/the-maestro-and-the-music-bof.htm= l Dave T=C3=A4ht CSO, LibreQos