From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mail-pg1-x533.google.com (mail-pg1-x533.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::533]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by lists.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 968593B29D for ; Tue, 24 Oct 2023 15:22:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: by mail-pg1-x533.google.com with SMTP id 41be03b00d2f7-577e62e2adfso3072985a12.2 for ; Tue, 24 Oct 2023 12:22:08 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20230601; t=1698175327; x=1698780127; darn=lists.bufferbloat.net; h=content-transfer-encoding:cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from :in-reply-to:references:mime-version:from:to:cc:subject:date :message-id:reply-to; bh=bqNGQM2qGGAvyWiurxvgm0+DKfKkJaAd4fbSnRLZpeQ=; b=PI466Q0UNCtTyQcRHJtgmhCAcUGP/+auBq8C5HRpuY/wWzhnmWImP/Eae1iAa0jpjj ctA4GorHQRFVV1fluvCxEfK3+tZUWpDWDuD3mAuBa9zTcPDsp1AdbZKp6yXlPwpLBi6e ixG6WxzU2cmurP3+9Tmt5DusL+/KxW3vYzOBJP0LbcwwuC6Kq/CxL8zzBCR6MNQlaHGu DltzzKbseSek8fAEVb523GUnmtC+SoEAVlUxDlG/QpCuLjCmMhwFx97iH6iIr8lY/WEC 4E50O5zEpHNb6WJAwNcTm75PBK7LLsLzTKHpb4lORnVV8iAHslMmz1hWScxkkO/BiuSd L13Q== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1698175327; x=1698780127; h=content-transfer-encoding:cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from :in-reply-to:references:mime-version:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc :subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=bqNGQM2qGGAvyWiurxvgm0+DKfKkJaAd4fbSnRLZpeQ=; b=cIvF9bAB6o15GHlTydtfuZH1y3E8vlHEi9Go+YRdo2cI4NVmWWFR5U1C4MWWTIIEsZ htNRbnBmUom81S15jxJVb12Qb2Y5zsv79UMghqoZoEKucY7xpHYcXQYAHief9njN1nSF lP1BtDL/DwxawpLCV8iZjqtYp1zkgX+nLizI367VMxTu3o56l2uY+je149sldCHE+iCG miKw5aiEpkg4ONw3NAjBKGmSjyp0LuoGhYBl7ECval45x45KlPRH4eQG3HfcOZSz6d4t Xw+OFQtYGM3Uz3sSCo57wLSxKqievxcFS8zFWKR4IRFzc5U1CW8/t7Eo2t1atUmiO7qQ GXVA== X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0Yx3UrQusP5XcBPamVSo5oiDfaY3AiVBrXAlRP6iTgMrD0YFI9ok 3e9CDjy7vmocxFRQY2JvmP7VBoiIMs61wR0uFGUCYfSJPsk= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IFORi8YHl/NOcMfNCtfpNEgGzGafJgVAjwEbKdhlAwq1Epx33GVWGCxinEarSgvonitNVVoNHjFvbgFsMxp0e8= X-Received: by 2002:a17:90a:fa96:b0:27d:65:53e1 with SMTP id cu22-20020a17090afa9600b0027d006553e1mr10198985pjb.16.1698175327148; Tue, 24 Oct 2023 12:22:07 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: From: Dave Taht Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2023 12:21:54 -0700 Message-ID: To: =?UTF-8?Q?Network_Neutrality_is_back=21_Let=C2=B4s_make_the_technical_asp?= =?UTF-8?Q?ects_heard_this_time=21?= Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: Re: [NNagain] Brendan Carr: "Six years ago, Americans lived through one of the greatest hoaxes in regulatory history... X-BeenThere: nnagain@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: =?utf-8?q?Network_Neutrality_is_back!_Let=C2=B4s_make_the_technical_aspects_heard_this_time!?= List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2023 19:22:08 -0000 On Tue, Oct 24, 2023 at 11:21=E2=80=AFAM the keyboard of geoff goodfellow v= ia Nnagain wrote: > > =E2=9E=94=E2=9E=94https://twitter.com/BrendanCarrFCC/status/1716558844384= 379163 Leaving aside the rhetoric, I believe the majority of these claims on this part of his post: https://twitter.com/BrendanCarrFCC/status/1716884139226329512 to be true. Any one question this? I do wish that he showed upload speeds, and latency under load, and, acknowledged some mistakes, at least, and did not claim perfect success. Also individual states had stepped up to institute their own rules, and I would love to see a comparison of those stats vs those that didn=C2=B4t. The COVID thing I am most fiercely proud of, as an engineer, is we took an internet only capable of postage stamp 5 frame per sec[1] videoconferencing to something that the world, as a whole, relied on to keep civilization running only 7 years later, in the face of terrible odds, lights out environments, scarce equipment supplies, and illness. ISPs big and small helped too - Their people climbed towers, produced better code, rerouted networks, and stayed up late fighting off DDOSes. People at home shared their wifi and knowledge of how to make fiddly things on the net work well, over the internet - Nobody handed out medals for keeping the internet running, I do not remember a single statement of praise for what we did over that terrible time. No one ever looks up after a productive day after a zillion productive clicks and says (for one example) "Thank you Paul Vixie and Mokapetris for inventing DNS and Evan Hunt(bind) and Simon Kelly(dnsmasq) for shipping dns servers for free that only get it wrong once in a while, and then recover so fast you don=C2=B4t notice" - there are just endless complaints from those for whom it is not working *right now* the way they expect. There are no nobel prizes for networking. But the scientists, engineers, sysadmins and SREs kept improving things, and are keeping civilization running. It is kind of a cause for me - I get very irked at both sides whining when if only they could walk a mile in a neteng=C2=B4s shoes. I get respect from my neighbors at least, sometimes asked to fix a laptop or set up a router... and I still share my wifi. If there was just some way to separate out the ire about other aspects of how the internet is going south (which I certainly share), and somehow put respect for those in the trenches that work on keeping the Net running, back in the public conversation, I would really love to hear it. [1] Really great talk on networking by Van Jacobson in 2012, both useful for its content, and the kind of quality we could only achieve then: https://archive.org/details/video1_20191129 > -- > Geoff.Goodfellow@iconia.com > living as The Truth is True > > _______________________________________________ > Nnagain mailing list > Nnagain@lists.bufferbloat.net > https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/nnagain --=20 Oct 30: https://netdevconf.info/0x17/news/the-maestro-and-the-music-bof.htm= l Dave T=C3=A4ht CSO, LibreQos