From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mail-wm1-x32d.google.com (mail-wm1-x32d.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::32d]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by lists.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 6E8963CB37 for ; Mon, 19 Feb 2024 08:08:28 -0500 (EST) Received: by mail-wm1-x32d.google.com with SMTP id 5b1f17b1804b1-412698ac6f9so2890805e9.0 for ; Mon, 19 Feb 2024 05:08:28 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20230601; t=1708348107; x=1708952907; darn=lists.bufferbloat.net; h=content-transfer-encoding:to:subject:message-id:date:from :mime-version:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=6XMDZZvVBQRwOzUeRy915SZs6qhOBJ33qDdARMyumNU=; b=eEpQtQudi5ZDwEju8FfuoTu1aGOgYDSbuPREZnjKIwxOFPeouh8pdp3OKAaDdUYP+k 8royfV7nsIQe/R8vuSyu3nabo8n/YkBKk8qKGF9k/qwu0t5E/UvDGB+wWSNVx1dXBn8Y su0Sd4qAnDipniiSNabHBmicbVtUrW2MQJh9B4vhTOckeGWgvD8EE4iEuuuOoEigRcTo BBvJsoK8tjr09+/TQjeBm2VYFNHlF8n5XfnRmd8ujIV2mpyJjNX/qt69Lv15he9WrxxA 7lzwEENkEQ5SeptxpRCifincqj8z48+Sc40UiZH0jyG/SfvOMbWa1+kSSWkODrJ3uEl6 axnQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1708348107; x=1708952907; h=content-transfer-encoding:to:subject:message-id:date:from :mime-version:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id :reply-to; bh=6XMDZZvVBQRwOzUeRy915SZs6qhOBJ33qDdARMyumNU=; b=apzk2dZ1GRpcGhtKs6tnh4UgZttyFgmBnCXTBgGir3nEPo6NByvSnyJrr3K3wRY4LW aBHwf6kKLuuSakj04C75CbgabaUmp+Pz46U930sXKVH4ptw7NSZWpPwnjaMQVgzMUe/H 0O1VlGA9+9UJYUUrYyBZG7OIki7ZUnQZYh9MTfGOBFmaMnTemEEVxoX+56qJVFF8OyBo ekqO7miKjDWv4KzuwOO1q2ecIxw1Q9WYSpJvja6Gs3PVXUQnpZeTNN35P9PqpLMgldAl 6bhW8mAeHMipd0yVuvLts/WJ7vKQx5W6A+P7KeOOkMHQcOscYJ54Chr4sOI9OtYj41VH GAyA== X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0YzBssGFidyL+zHqiMxFeYZZe8hy9xhcNTgI8GkQ+oCd2AYLlWij lp1oBpGtPtsGLe/RklrWj2QdEuXXu2TXRbXZbBrVdl4Cu4kf9slTidzWQazxmPgXrXiY828Lnqz UIdJknRWw8zgf7eRyT4c9/UzQBbYQg3Hpk8I= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IGXZdm4DOxNtf8Mn4ASEETyoxEXwTe1L9BRKVkxXG3svK8O/xRt9U30w6YXrxo0icmLZwvLUUQoe7p6xPwI42o= X-Received: by 2002:a05:600c:190e:b0:410:78fb:bed2 with SMTP id j14-20020a05600c190e00b0041078fbbed2mr10741854wmq.19.1708348106806; Mon, 19 Feb 2024 05:08:26 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Dave Taht Date: Mon, 19 Feb 2024 08:08:14 -0500 Message-ID: To: =?UTF-8?Q?Network_Neutrality_is_back=21_Let=C2=B4s_make_the_technical_asp?= =?UTF-8?Q?ects_heard_this_time=21?= Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: [NNagain] ip address exhaustion podcast X-BeenThere: nnagain@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: =?utf-8?q?Network_Neutrality_is_back!_Let=C2=B4s_make_the_technical_aspects_heard_this_time!?= List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 19 Feb 2024 13:08:28 -0000 With as much humor and nuance as possible, I attempted to address some of the backstory behind the 240/4 brouhaha in terms of why making sure the internet had enough addresses for everyone was important. https://hackaday.com/2024/02/14/floss-weekly-episode-769-10-more-internet/ (there are links to it on hackernews and elsewhere) I have been deeply worried that in general, many recipients of BEAD funding are intending to crutch along on IPv4 CGNAT and not put in IPv6. The knowledge level with most that I have talked with is that you just plug in a fiber and everything works, right? We just need to run fiber - when the reality of the DSL deployment among others has a lot of IPv4 addresses that need to move over, and that an internet without direct connectivity is a poorer internet for everyone. There are other nuances that I discuss, like the US government holding onto 11 seemingly unused IPv4/8s, numerous other corporations also holding onto a /8 of this asset, like Ford, and not using it (a /8 is 16 million IPv4 addresses at PDV of $30/ip), the role of the RIRs moving forward, and the spectre of Amazon raising $1B/year from renting the allocations they own to their customers. (The 240/4 "for future use" problem is a relative distraction, honestly! but amazon's use of it *all* does irk me, as I had intended that space be used for all of humanity). Certainly by finally charging for their IPV4 addresses we will see some movement again towards IPv6, but that gets me back into hoping that IPv6 IS deployed as part of BEAD to the edges where it is most needed, and enough IPv4 remains available to connect it also, without overloading CGNATs. I would really like ip address exhaustion to be discussed at higher levels in the government, not just as a network neutrality issue (CGNATs make p2p vpns and gaming more difficult, among other things). How could that be accomplished? --=20 40 years of net history, a couple songs: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3DD9RGX6QFm5E Dave T=C3=A4ht CSO, LibreQos