From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mail-pg1-x534.google.com (mail-pg1-x534.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::534]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by lists.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 863983B29D for ; Fri, 13 Oct 2023 23:09:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: by mail-pg1-x534.google.com with SMTP id 41be03b00d2f7-578b407045bso2043781a12.0 for ; Fri, 13 Oct 2023 20:09:11 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20230601; t=1697252950; x=1697857750; darn=lists.bufferbloat.net; h=content-transfer-encoding:cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from :in-reply-to:references:mime-version:from:to:cc:subject:date :message-id:reply-to; bh=nvuGcAIQoqJfKhwkDtjB3fG5IZ6gQWAQ1hTqFrOdHXc=; b=iC37Z3AdqkxAGtLuRnkQFDWqQTB/yLdTsMyeb+IRxvFxgxoOH23HcoSbr4AQT3s+Kv S5knF3O/zh0y0G13SuulcAl9jdEON8VvyS6VpiVCIlirJhDKX+kBZm7BwG+Yqr1j3cCM yiaKK4hG0NsIEvHJi7eT2/zQ3/AzZ9FPKZywZqXpEkr7fEebkU5CG2e/dMLUCn/Byh4D 5Tw5zi2oyxm658Z9Da6sm0iZwtrsHmIqrfFlKs8b+WNaYYjdqzwrBA60buB9rRMie4yi p6zCvhaA9lmz1NSAkshk+E+JI2z5zKulXAVwE+0OFC5ipntmI/me9xXa4WGSe8mxchOR QwIg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1697252950; x=1697857750; h=content-transfer-encoding:cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from :in-reply-to:references:mime-version:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc :subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=nvuGcAIQoqJfKhwkDtjB3fG5IZ6gQWAQ1hTqFrOdHXc=; b=dCoIrzSa54miZVvjsMXbw6GyWF8NOt1WRKx31BsHIahwR7HJiI0UdkUQ0EDm4bj6oT 8IyxNQoZs/8VUaSXFM7yUDeSCiQHRC+jhgRpNdLHm4QXu6NBp93whvqxqBB9TbyR95OJ Ek0QcWeCwZC9owEb9mTZOxelGYgIpDSPjKDueM8n4dQscSExrpVd3AxyD2PoYix2eOxS QOB087du9BOZuIydSdHyhjr6hwqK+b7hdhyiYKwho+oReRrI0ynXQo+LubXxjk+di0MN 4O7wcfY3x/97fWd+nUpxEHX9qxNbXGdsqcDwy20G/WBW6DiuI+O1jVVAuIEK7f+5vDuR xA+w== X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0Yy9NDH1fk0mrDKBQMTsELbeaek0GDZJKSoyDQ97GH+JBz1C4l5i oPgC9JP/FN2soYAMS9seBDSeZmaXe2xihXQ0FOhHzVqn X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IE9TQ2b7jp/yvYSXGwFRcnn4dYrLV/2eXtamNGXkKksviWYPfPiUkflyLMa2cx3tNJUtqfFNUXqwaqcQjfzLXM= X-Received: by 2002:a05:6a20:2447:b0:154:3f13:1bb7 with SMTP id t7-20020a056a20244700b001543f131bb7mr32386714pzc.49.1697252950227; Fri, 13 Oct 2023 20:09:10 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <0ddfc07c8caa7acc35018f730edf7950@rjmcmahon.com> In-Reply-To: <0ddfc07c8caa7acc35018f730edf7950@rjmcmahon.com> From: Dave Taht Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2023 20:08:27 -0700 Message-ID: To: rjmcmahon Cc: =?UTF-8?Q?Network_Neutrality_is_back=21_Let=C2=B4s_make_the_technical_asp?= =?UTF-8?Q?ects_heard_this_time=21?= Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: Re: [NNagain] some compelling rhetoric X-BeenThere: nnagain@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: =?utf-8?q?Network_Neutrality_is_back!_Let=C2=B4s_make_the_technical_aspects_heard_this_time!?= List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 14 Oct 2023 03:09:11 -0000 I note that when I complement someone's rhetoric, I am often quite honestly admiring of it, and yet being sarcastic about the uses to subtly mislead. I am also hoping that with 186 people on the list, that more will be inspired to thrash out truths and lies, rationally... and come up with better rhetoric. On Fri, Oct 13, 2023 at 1:43=E2=80=AFPM rjmcmahon = wrote: > > Not sure of the goals with this, but it reads like misinformation and > propaganda to me. The state of so-called "digital journalism" today is > very sad. Hopefully, we'll find a way so quality journalism can rise to > the top, created by journalists who get paid for publishing with > integrity and aren't paid to produce propaganda (I know - wishful > thinking - Elon Musk and all that.) > > History suggests we may have to wait awhile. Let's hope not. > > 1436 Gutenberg press invented > 1517 Martin Luther posts his 95 Theses > 1687 Newton's Principia is published > > https://cs.stanford.edu/people/eroberts/cs181/projects/2010-11/Journalism= /index7f0d.html?page_id=3D16 > > The fact of the matter is that democracy requires informed citizens. No > governing body can be expected to operate well without knowledge of the > issues on which it is to rule, and rule by the people entails that the > people should be informed. In a representative democracy, the role of > the press is twofold: it both informs citizens and sets up a feedback > loop between the government and voters. The press makes the actions of > the government known to the public, and voters who disapprove of current > trends in policy can take corrective action in the next election. > Without the press, the feedback loop is broken and the government is no > longer accountable to the people. The press is therefore of the utmost > importance in a representative democracy. > > Another, related, function of the press is to expose people to opinions > contrary to their own. This function is perhaps the most valuable in the > Internet age; while people can in theory get information about the > actions of their government from online sources, it is all too easy to > find opinions online that match one=E2=80=99s own. Informed decision-maki= ng on > the part of voters requires an awareness of multiple points of view, > which is not likely to be obtained if voters bear the sole > responsibility of seeking out information on relevant issues. The news > media provide a forum for debates to take place, as well as moderating > and curating the arguments presented by all sides. It is, of course, > idealistic to suppose that media give equal, or even proportional, > representation to all opinions, but the fact that many media outlets > present themselves as nonpartisan sources of information makes them a > better forum for debate than online sources such as blogs, which are > typically maintained by one individual or a small group of people with > similar opinions > > Bob > > https://www.freepress.net/blog/what-net-neutrality > > > > It also contains a link to the proposed NPRM. > > > > I am however, under the impression that 2019-2022 bandwidths increased > > by a lot, coverage was extended to more folk, and cell phones > > subsidiezed by ACP kept a lot of people connected. --=20 Oct 30: https://netdevconf.info/0x17/news/the-maestro-and-the-music-bof.htm= l Dave T=C3=A4ht CSO, LibreQos