From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mail-pf1-x429.google.com (mail-pf1-x429.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::429]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by lists.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 5AB173B2A4 for ; Tue, 31 Oct 2023 12:34:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: by mail-pf1-x429.google.com with SMTP id d2e1a72fcca58-6bd96cfb99cso5175178b3a.2 for ; Tue, 31 Oct 2023 09:34:10 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20230601; t=1698770049; x=1699374849; darn=lists.bufferbloat.net; h=content-transfer-encoding:cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from :in-reply-to:references:mime-version:from:to:cc:subject:date :message-id:reply-to; bh=V/8X+GxET3fO4ka+w0wWugRP+digj2rb5W+hlgP7GO8=; b=RhOcol3PjhvCRneRETgZQj9LfsH7d+JRhrNkqQNOUt18r/0qhpmU3b4DnbJCmBCvFi jPQK115858rhW+pZYVJSpJna7u3B6FrNIJ5K8iM7UWxiue2v7bQC4SMPvTJUiJnUQN+l hi61w38NVGQLI2minBEaifWGPkLcjBU0Q3CDvcac1gLrNsqh2Qy8CYISGFM2fiCTQKSB 6iZJZrHQpNeevYzZzovgG/E9+H3tZeft2lWnr0VwYPck8TYAPd0wB6JXpu9s3PvuPasW Nml5wtMfg898kmI4aq2zY7UNUsg7hLabwWL01CZQL22Tq4cjTdIAPsmW1vUDVhaO+iUX Fi+A== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1698770049; x=1699374849; h=content-transfer-encoding:cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from :in-reply-to:references:mime-version:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc :subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=V/8X+GxET3fO4ka+w0wWugRP+digj2rb5W+hlgP7GO8=; b=reIQmulrPYDHgRLSrEsFrje3zf+E785SA/Uz5oecNBWhlqBJavtSB6P3wGArQyD89m g3Xo2hpwai51Uoj675wpEtsnb7WG7BFsu7B/qdCy/oq24nXe5xT++HH4j29jcjkSovrt R7VqdnTaQcwDGpM91K4aV3j6pYJxEZpTfES8MRiogmAKE0YEuPnwqt1AkVYZhD8humn0 lQntagdBnPxi++ta/7tzIFxN5773yoMtFvTPuk0SEbYk7wNKhnZIvCse6IHO4IQDao9a 2C5WyFlKHGEJLyQ33z93jhkFGNJ2/hFO4aGg1CmUu8UQkCfC4JfEjTDczDKSsyXjMFwx /uBA== X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0Yx6UjpZChrR4klSBDeydDwwaZyA9NIRc/TAUO8qLlPYXkalxpV5 GHD09jmAtJod9cgQMJSVNFDjfUW5EmLqjtKl/4Ep3WHGgxI= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IG4p1Er2NUcae6YWR50/l2SXHpu3Z42465ylVtQoaJtfttj1XHe9ChmmJWBtzTHn691+97rm59nulSdGQu4pqI= X-Received: by 2002:a05:6a20:12d5:b0:14b:8b82:867f with SMTP id v21-20020a056a2012d500b0014b8b82867fmr11972465pzg.50.1698770048784; Tue, 31 Oct 2023 09:34:08 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <2822930F-C30B-4557-B248-78D78DF6F861@gmx.de> In-Reply-To: <2822930F-C30B-4557-B248-78D78DF6F861@gmx.de> From: Dave Taht Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2023 09:33:55 -0700 Message-ID: To: =?UTF-8?Q?Network_Neutrality_is_back=21_Let=C2=B4s_make_the_technical_asp?= =?UTF-8?Q?ects_heard_this_time=21?= Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: Re: [NNagain] NN review in the UK X-BeenThere: nnagain@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: =?utf-8?q?Network_Neutrality_is_back!_Let=C2=B4s_make_the_technical_aspects_heard_this_time!?= List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2023 16:34:10 -0000 This link is working now. https://www.ofcom.org.uk/consultations-and-statements/category-1/net-neutra= lity-review I had reached out to multiple folk I knew to fix it. It is hugely ironic that we have run into multiple examples of both intentional and unintentional censorship so far in our quest to find truths about network neutrality all around the globe. Annoyed, I set up a server in london, and mirrored the site myself via "wget -m" - a command line utility that lets you make complete copies of websites shipped as part of most operating systems. ... Back in the day when the open internet meant you can copy a website and read it offline, easily... And then I shipped it all to my own laptop (where I can index it myself), via another quite common tool, rsync. It took a while to do that - started the rsync in america, and then finished it at a coffee shop in vancouver... then I read the 5 pdfs and deleted the thing because I needed the disk space. Seeing so many newer folk having missed JPB's observation that the internet is a "copying machine" ... if only more people would point out to those folk these basic tools exist, that cannot be banned, and are genuinely useful.... OK... so... This now globally(? please test) accessible cloudflare instance for ofcom is now throwing an error 429 (too many requests) so I no longer have that ability to quickly mirror it that I had had only a few days ago. Is this an improvement? Anyway, I can finally get towards commenting on the actual text. But not today. I would like to see various statements written about network neutrality in 2005, 2010, 2015, because it seems to be the definition in the ofcom docs has morphed a lot towards being... "reasonable", whatever that means. On Sat, Oct 28, 2023 at 3:01=E2=80=AFAM Sebastian Moeller via Nnagain wrote: > > Dear All, > > I have been pointed at Ofcom's statement on Net neutrality for October 20= 23: > > https://www.ofcom.org.uk/consultations-and-statements/category-1/net-neut= rality-review > > Here is the meat of that statement sans the links at the end (the email w= ill be clasified as spam if it contains too many links, I hope the one abov= e does not trigger it yet): > > Statement published 26 October 2023 > > Net neutrality supports the =E2=80=98open internet=E2=80=99, ensuring tha= t users of the internet (both consumers and those making and distributing c= ontent) are in control of what they see and do online =E2=80=93 not the bro= adband or mobile providers (otherwise known as internet service providers o= r ISPs). The net neutrality rules make sure that the traffic carried across= broadband and mobile networks is treated equally and particular content or= services are not prioritised or slowed down in a way that favours some ove= r others. We want to make sure that as technology evolves and more of our l= ives move online, net neutrality continues to support innovation, investmen= t and growth, by both content providers and ISPs. > > The current net neutrality rules are set out in legislation. Any changes = to the rules in future would be a matter for Government and Parliament. Ofc= om is responsible for monitoring and ensuring compliance with the rules and= providing guidance on how ISPs should follow them. In 2021 we started a re= view of net neutrality. > > Our review has found that, in general, it has worked well and supported c= onsumer choice as well as enabling content providers to deliver their conte= nt and services to consumers. However, there are specific areas where we pr= ovide more clarity in our guidance to enable ISPs to innovate and manage th= eir networks more efficiently, to improve consumer outcome. > > =E2=80=A2 ISPs can offer premium quality retail offers: Allowing = ISPs to provide premium quality retail packages means they can better meet = some consumers=E2=80=99 needs. For example, people who use high quality vir= tual reality applications may want to buy a premium quality service, while = users who mainly stream and browse the internet can buy a cheaper package. = Our updated guidance clarifies that ISPs can offer premium packages, for ex= ample offering low latency, as long as they are sufficiently clear to custo= mers about what they can expect from the services they buy. > =E2=80=A2 ISPs can develop new =E2=80=98specialised services=E2= =80=99: New 5G and full fibre networks offer the opportunity for ISPs to in= novate and develop their services. Our updated guidance clarifies when they= can provide =E2=80=98specialised services=E2=80=99 to deliver specific con= tent and applications that need to be optimised, which might include real t= ime communications, virtual reality and driverless vehicles. > =E2=80=A2 ISPs can use traffic management measures to manage thei= r networks: Traffic management can be used by ISPs on their networks, so th= at a good quality of service is maintained for consumers. Our updated guida= nce clarifies when and how ISPs can use traffic management, including the d= ifferent approaches they can take and how they can distinguish between diff= erent categories of traffic based on their technical requirements. > =E2=80=A2 Most zero-rating offers will be allowed: Zero-rating is= where the data used by certain websites or apps is not counted towards a c= ustomer=E2=80=99s overall data allowance. Our updated guidance clarifies th= at we will generally allow these offers, while setting out the limited circ= umstances where we might have concerns. > > > I note however, that when I try to access that page today I get a cloadfl= are error: > Sorry, you have been blocked > You are unable to access ofcom.squizedge.cloud > > Which might indicate that some parts of the network are not acting in goo= d faith (or I was just unlucky with my current IP address) > > I also note (as Ofcom does itself) that since Brexit the UK is not bound = to the EU's regulation 2015/2120 (see https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-conte= nt/de/TXT/?uri=3DCELEX%3A32015R2120 ). > > Regards > Sebastian > > _______________________________________________ > Nnagain mailing list > Nnagain@lists.bufferbloat.net > https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/nnagain --=20 Oct 30: https://netdevconf.info/0x17/news/the-maestro-and-the-music-bof.htm= l Dave T=C3=A4ht CSO, LibreQos