From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mail-pg1-x533.google.com (mail-pg1-x533.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::533]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by lists.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 507853B29D; Wed, 4 Oct 2023 15:46:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: by mail-pg1-x533.google.com with SMTP id 41be03b00d2f7-578a62c088cso1071411a12.1; Wed, 04 Oct 2023 12:46:29 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20230601; t=1696448788; x=1697053588; darn=lists.bufferbloat.net; h=content-transfer-encoding:cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from :in-reply-to:references:mime-version:from:to:cc:subject:date :message-id:reply-to; bh=qlsGbcazq1JZeUgOKMQ2x+tv1jdpgf97Bz/2paOemBA=; b=YwD//XWmVRjI0RE2MtydmbUS5oAYgDwOTuCWLE0ToRzUS63kiQJfz2wsml+gOCKYVS I//MGA08Hk1Zqzj80gejCs5B3qaQm/DWsnKMhJIWM7chzUCWrXSRfj/za12bPlaYI8gL 31qVUIyx9XwZpBrDGof6/MUQB9TulcRMw+5oYp05LA+hX+yYVR0kOAPpzZeCUwpFoqkw +TMcpvQZUILRD9/WcbninBLErbAC8zh1wALrR8PRNaibeRlRW4SPTd6VDTp6zNZ9pGdA pGuZfB9QIKu6FsvWfZut0uUxhfg+qjB58JSYyENVR3NL/JU21e8I7UjqWp5XDVT2/Mqb U2PQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1696448788; x=1697053588; h=content-transfer-encoding:cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from :in-reply-to:references:mime-version:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc :subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=qlsGbcazq1JZeUgOKMQ2x+tv1jdpgf97Bz/2paOemBA=; b=X0kqmaYrPb3pk8yb+IDSTvY8Ms7lZ8BZ8SiMsWLjSzekh1xGAcJekQZ4rsqE0zSG4O H5xjULK8FCckkc4PKinFrUwkVN+yUlb0GzuBsFKrpS9bfQnHg4EC2pciEAy0d7HgN2rb ywuQwFwh9D77MiMCO9aGKZY3pVmvfvG/IOrwq6JazB+svb2surczKTcr6SzYVoh1Jcjb RhWGRHbIsf2KfLEFEEbj5YxlzNgFD2mmy+3r2M8k0VIbWQ7IqG6HMkIdvORUMbE7Q90R aL7ooTa9uoRHEbXwZ7+h42JdYewIMt3OVC3oTq4cNKe7zgtCdhGzhJgn8JhcDErUiwgF xovA== X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0YxIC/FRqZPyfvp5UTaO5mQORjGth27BXaYOz0xI7a2sUleH4T26 YdpSUwDURcRgPnmkD60gxQgrATvUIkGHT3kh808= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IEaQ4rFTaRVrOKDtNVjS7vcVPGUigFLfJZHIEK9OdSoCpnyCham7BbzqhNSRBAv1yCQm8CVi+5ij2sCkZNP7C0= X-Received: by 2002:a17:90b:1b46:b0:276:5512:13ab with SMTP id nv6-20020a17090b1b4600b00276551213abmr853867pjb.10.1696448788081; Wed, 04 Oct 2023 12:46:28 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <20231003205640.3.f99276b66eff3df4@mg-d1.substack.com> <6babb0efe14e124790978723c89f2434@rjmcmahon.com> In-Reply-To: <6babb0efe14e124790978723c89f2434@rjmcmahon.com> From: Dave Taht Date: Wed, 4 Oct 2023 12:46:15 -0700 Message-ID: To: rjmcmahon Cc: =?UTF-8?Q?Network_Neutrality_is_back=21_Let=C2=B4s_make_the_technical_asp?= =?UTF-8?Q?ects_heard_this_time=21?= , David Lang , bloat , Chris Randall Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: Re: [NNagain] A good question - do you know how a toilet works? X-BeenThere: nnagain@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: =?utf-8?q?Network_Neutrality_is_back!_Let=C2=B4s_make_the_technical_aspects_heard_this_time!?= List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 04 Oct 2023 19:46:29 -0000 That is a really beautiful selection. In my case highly influential on me were reading Ed Bernay's book on "public relations", Chomsky's "Manufacturing Consent", and "The medium is the massage." Buckminster Fullers enthusiasm for the future, and "Spaceship earth", also had a big influence on me. In terms of environmental disasters, "Building Six", by Willard Randal had merit, as did "silent spring", and "unsafe at any speed". In contrast, "safe at any speed", by Larry Niven, is worth reading also, and shorter! I do not know of a good book on the Superfund cleanup story, but I remember how the Clean Air act ultimately made it possible to view philadelphia from the other side of the George Washington Bridge. On Wed, Oct 4, 2023 at 12:40=E2=80=AFPM rjmcmahon = wrote: > > Some books I found worth reading > > https://www.hup.harvard.edu/catalog.php?isbn=3D9780674416833 > > Eden on the Charles > The Making of Boston > Michael Rawson > > Eden on the Charles explores how Bostonians channeled country lakes > through miles of pipeline to provide clean water; dredged the ocean to > deepen the harbor; filled tidal flats and covered the peninsula with > houses, shops, and factories; and created a metropolitan system of parks > and greenways, facilitating the conversion of fields into suburbs. The > book shows how, in Boston, different class and ethnic groups brought > rival ideas of nature and competing visions of a =E2=80=9Ccity upon a hil= l=E2=80=9D to > the process of urbanization=E2=80=94and were forced to conform their goal= s to > the realities of Boston=E2=80=99s distinctive natural setting. The outcom= es of > their battles for control over the city=E2=80=99s development were ultima= tely > recorded in the very fabric of Boston itself. In Boston=E2=80=99s history= , we > find the seeds of the environmental relationships that=E2=80=94for better= or > worse=E2=80=94have defined urban America to this day. > > https://upittpress.org/books/9780822961475/#:~:text=3DJacobson's%20Ties%2= 0That%20Bind%20is,the%20course%20of%20two%20centuries. > > Ties That Bind > By Charles Jacobson > > In the early days of utility development, municipalities sought to shape > the new systems in a variety of ways even as private firms struggled to > retain control and fend off competition. In scope and consequence, some > of the battles dwarfed the contemporary one between local jurisdictions > and cable companies over broadband access to the Internet. In this > comparative historical study, Jacobson draws upon economic theory to > shed light on relationships between technology, market forces, and > problems of governance that have arisen in connection with different > utility networks over the past two hundred years. He focuses on water, > electric, and cable television utility networks and on experiences in > four major American cities =E2=80=94 Boston, Seattle, San Francisco, and > Pittsburgh, arguing that information and transactions costs have played > decisive roles in determining how different ownership and regulatory > arrangements have functioned in different situations.Using primary > sources and bold conceptualizations, Jacobson begins his study by > examining the creation of centralized water systems in the first half of > the nineteenth century, moves to the building of electric utilities from > the 1880s to the 1980s, and concludes with an analysis of cable > television franchising from the 1960s to the 1980s. Ties That Bind > addresses highly practical questions of how to make ownership, > regulatory, and contracting arrangements work better and also explores > broader concerns about private monopoly and the role of government in > society. > > Bob > > Sometimes I liken this debate about the internet, to 1906-era > > partisans arguing about the right cures for syphilis. One side, > > intoning with great authority: "Tinctures of mercury, yes a good dose > > of mercury, is just what you need... " and the other side, insisting > > that "Leeches, leeches will help... all you need is a good > > blood-letting... and everything will be fine..." > > > > While those few that had embraced germ theory and were pointing at > > little squiggly things in microscopes as the root causes of so much > > disease, were laughed at and ignored. > > _______________________________________________ > > Nnagain mailing list > > Nnagain@lists.bufferbloat.net > > https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/nnagain --=20 Oct 30: https://netdevconf.info/0x17/news/the-maestro-and-the-music-bof.htm= l Dave T=C3=A4ht CSO, LibreQos