From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mail-lj1-x22a.google.com (mail-lj1-x22a.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::22a]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by lists.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 538A03B29D for ; Fri, 1 Mar 2024 09:35:17 -0500 (EST) Received: by mail-lj1-x22a.google.com with SMTP id 38308e7fff4ca-2d21cdbc85bso22898481fa.2 for ; Fri, 01 Mar 2024 06:35:17 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20230601; t=1709303716; x=1709908516; darn=lists.bufferbloat.net; h=content-transfer-encoding:cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from :in-reply-to:references:mime-version:from:to:cc:subject:date :message-id:reply-to; bh=vognZH0Rg7R1blFV1eaIJ59uDkmbxvuh8bNz0riwLOw=; b=YXM0DL04OfsDLAt9nMpe52esqMsFPTyM4JnuVS6rih4oqsZwVgd3Nqxr+Wk5SpzZ7e L75W6dzphTt6wWxvzJsYHbEpZY8c/aUmy/3eujx4U8MdNdmI1OLfQ/Zwot/XhOVCA7av SorCooOiZxtErMJOkodQTMOCNBF4UOCHe62sgJ3Iu0MVlgvHgZ+J8ILB1Ny9gGUH87BA 0d4I5cH3NNDjUQi2Qcfqm0E0g2nseDHFKe3fzrYUyFwSqha5xR8h5a7cD3pS9cWk78gh c6E957NO3dVgqD6P/fmrGE5m84twqmnC7oa/uUJqV0PuwFlF7q8/uYARrUkGDSAj/BES HX3w== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1709303716; x=1709908516; h=content-transfer-encoding:cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from :in-reply-to:references:mime-version:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc :subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=vognZH0Rg7R1blFV1eaIJ59uDkmbxvuh8bNz0riwLOw=; b=S35l4vK+CdOdRqZyjTVgLy9X6J+RDXAsoOoHGlZdDWQdHcPaTSABRrcbs0M7G7b3fb 4LBM8969rm2L20tlfjUXW3PxunC8m5w8fhGsyebJ88uYpaTaC/v34bfX1RhvXp0ERx9z WEvYgvXUvbJ4dCkxatnSJm3BdUZJZmupDjAICKM7mrNyshfRe76QkB5ZKAN6d8duMgw8 4gCfWCXZCKeSzvjh66FFkgL9DqkR4y7x6+HrPQ9x9G754bV7InujwO5ROKhwffpzpdfP ogQEzmT2y4nSb+i9yDv0Dq2HHyKjBUYKLIeVgXtIR943lyXNwYT7noS4MhsvokyUwdPi q2PQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0Yx/mjwld8TWBo7OxpHIDShHV3xvvJuX2Fi8NovISd8Ud2FyvR4z 96+XDpFyI/2OmQ15/cPWBw0RDXkp8/LH/h5Bw/CkOUhPDA4vfy9gLgr3QvyWmvi4sfUrmJPNqsl zTCcKJEtWJH5wFklVTGaVz0/iCcyRumkihiE= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IE5GZMpnK5SZN8uii/ctQ3wb0xxa/u4cSypzEEce4rRjN/cmuAeTm87PpJFFij4Iv8Q8H7vkbzd3vJTdZv4WKg= X-Received: by 2002:a2e:8e91:0:b0:2d3:158a:4ce4 with SMTP id z17-20020a2e8e91000000b002d3158a4ce4mr1296095ljk.26.1709303715195; Fri, 01 Mar 2024 06:35:15 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <7d143d97-7b26-e324-f92e-f14cf8004816@thexlab.org> <9531f4a7-e077-643e-c371-a31a054d03de@thexlab.org> In-Reply-To: <9531f4a7-e077-643e-c371-a31a054d03de@thexlab.org> From: Dave Taht Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2024 09:35:03 -0500 Message-ID: To: sascha@thexlab.org Cc: =?UTF-8?Q?Network_Neutrality_is_back=21_Let=C2=B4s_make_the_technical_asp?= =?UTF-8?Q?ects_heard_this_time=21?= Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: Re: [NNagain] broadband measurement summit in DC March 7th X-BeenThere: nnagain@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: =?utf-8?q?Network_Neutrality_is_back!_Let=C2=B4s_make_the_technical_aspects_heard_this_time!?= List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 01 Mar 2024 14:35:17 -0000 On Fri, Mar 1, 2024 at 8:50=E2=80=AFAM Sascha Meinrath = wrote: > > Hi Dave, > > Never got it unbricked, Worst fat fingering bug of my life. I so wish you had had that box as a reference while you developed other measurement tools. > alas, but we did finish up the RadarToolkit.com > firmware, and are currently winding our way through getting permissions t= o open > source that software stack (the federal agency has given the o.k., and no= w we > just need the lead NGO to get sign-off from its board). I have grave difficulty trusting any measurement software that is not open sourced. I look over your website and it makes me really twitchy - I point people at validated tools like irtt and flent and there is no, there, there, over there... Please tell me you are measuring latency properly? I just took apart some data from someone else that foolishly let me see the code and ... pesky NDAs... they are a license to lie... I am never signing another NDA again so long as I can help it. Over here is a classic example of why measuring "average latency" is a function of the measurement interval. http://www.taht.net/~d/Misunderstanding_Residential_Bandwidth_Latency.pdf Radar is a fairly > extensible Pi-based (and mobile-app-based) measurement tool that enables > longitudinal data collection to document network reliability. The site is devoid of useful scientific data. We've already > deployed hundreds of these devices across 4 states, and have documented > real-time "rolling blackouts" on specific ISPs up in Alaska. Radar is als= o > fairly seamless in terms of collecting info needed to make BEAD challenge= s > (which is this month's hot issue) -- though I'm far more interested in > collecting baseline intel prior to BEAD interventions (so that we can doc= ument > meaningful impact). > > I remain quite perplexed on how NTIA plans to actually document the effic= acy of > their public investments. One of the biggest (rightful) critiques of the = BTOP > program was that there was no empirically-based assessment of what worked= , and > what didn't. 12 years later and NTIA appears hell-bent on making exactly = the > same mistake. > > Meanwhile, I'll be very keen to see how the Broadband Nutrition Label rol= lout > goes -- starting next month, we *should* be able to do the first-ever, > systematic comparative pricing analyses on a national scale (at least amo= ng the > large-scale providers). > > --Sascha > > On 3/1/24 08:34, Dave Taht wrote: > > On Fri, Mar 1, 2024 at 8:32=E2=80=AFAM Sascha Meinrath wrote: > >> > >> Hi all, > >> > >> I'll be there! > > > > Did you ever get your wndr3800s to work? I could send you a box of a > > few 25 dollar fq_codeled gl.inet boxes to anyone that needs =C2=B4em, > > particularly those still stuck with DSL. I have also been encouraging > > folk to run the waveform or speedtest.net tests on the conference > > wifi.... > >> > >> --Sascha > >> > >> On 3/1/24 07:29, Dave Taht via Nnagain wrote: > >>> Anyone going to this? > >>> > >>> https://broadbandbreakfast.com/broadband-measurement-summit/ > >>> > >>> > > > > > > --=20 https://blog.cerowrt.org/post/2024_predictions/ Dave T=C3=A4ht CSO, LibreQos