From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mail-wm1-x329.google.com (mail-wm1-x329.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::329]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by lists.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 983BD3B2A4 for ; Sun, 3 Mar 2024 07:54:47 -0500 (EST) Received: by mail-wm1-x329.google.com with SMTP id 5b1f17b1804b1-412dda84216so3441535e9.3 for ; Sun, 03 Mar 2024 04:54:47 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20230601; t=1709470486; x=1710075286; darn=lists.bufferbloat.net; h=content-transfer-encoding:cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from :in-reply-to:references:mime-version:from:to:cc:subject:date :message-id:reply-to; bh=T9LPV97sDvw/jzNoBMats+1JDZ+H2hSIlsBSO2Dh1SQ=; b=VHFyN2vh3o+E4W4CYLN0ArFHIBHJ5+C87ErvoEhThY858BiRl9z8/sZs/UlG9Mg2QR zX5avZ5fIrRKDPA/gvR/CoUQs2o6bU0mDskLGMPzfHLS1+sx6rPZz23Itsvj6VK/Hlgu GtZ9bn7TLO5hWUJEbQQObpS2eMoqvuFsCPAXFFTDi08WxMSNkfSsx9O/LJsOa5K6lGxB sbaRn22KnK5fU2K1pLPTgFES0KPZB4v/r1C2uJD2Qbdf/hxNpm9hHFKp3t5zPOb2TjB6 jDaPVQEsNt+1UBzggmNvLG6jDpyBX+orYQKY3TpjTgtfKFKixFmuWbjLtE6icKaDIjmR x/SQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1709470486; x=1710075286; h=content-transfer-encoding:cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from :in-reply-to:references:mime-version:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc :subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=T9LPV97sDvw/jzNoBMats+1JDZ+H2hSIlsBSO2Dh1SQ=; b=tiCMCTuF+v5wsP3Er/R+ZXHH5VhOtT9aMOAyCr7q9ViINvTgU2tYzyunqO5EPtGM8a 23F72h60o5XzVTrIxHUl0si9Lbpl7zHHLS350AAIJZupnT2lx5vTyYsMrV6mQ5C9rbMH KHzvsaNQwV1ZloOosdphvNXN6M0EfybjQpao8Sl90up1sHJpdRyXZgSsMWN/lrF9ZNVA cUcBpyzTRwG6X+b1ssMmglGNc6q9JFpaL7pD5JxNbGSTdy42eV3/c5osDiJy2yjhXXGj 6hYIzAAVORXUgVB1zqeiqAgktVB1g9tJQ2b8QiS1rHuGYsPQYf71Wt/H5e6VehXRIkHH JQyw== X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0YxEsPlbVkjVQowiczS5bYaLeEoBi7dV/N2q+AEGwi3LxCnWcUHo PgrtmBrO+wV5YlH4MVg4mtdfaTj+a457Pjeaj3bY2LLtkJKTj3jqVDZRhsVGEL0kOsGd7E0N7YM sNJK4l6+XUN6ekI42TErJuHlz0gLu8Npzkn4= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IFxp2+y7ZwgILe4AB2u4R1h3DbXba4FrCaM5e69jfruZTnBXNnI7pT/AynYGw3Gdv2UZAyUSa3YVxUwCj8DkEs= X-Received: by 2002:a05:600c:3588:b0:412:c4ee:bc08 with SMTP id p8-20020a05600c358800b00412c4eebc08mr5029369wmq.39.1709470486055; Sun, 03 Mar 2024 04:54:46 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <7d143d97-7b26-e324-f92e-f14cf8004816@thexlab.org> <9531f4a7-e077-643e-c371-a31a054d03de@thexlab.org> In-Reply-To: From: Dave Taht Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2024 07:54:33 -0500 Message-ID: To: sascha@thexlab.org Cc: =?UTF-8?Q?Network_Neutrality_is_back=21_Let=C2=B4s_make_the_technical_asp?= =?UTF-8?Q?ects_heard_this_time=21?= Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: Re: [NNagain] broadband measurement summit in DC March 7th X-BeenThere: nnagain@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: =?utf-8?q?Network_Neutrality_is_back!_Let=C2=B4s_make_the_technical_aspects_heard_this_time!?= List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 03 Mar 2024 12:54:47 -0000 Dear Sascha: I apologize for being testy yesterday about what little is visible of your new measurement tool. It wasn=C2=B4t you that triggered me, but signing an NDA elsewhere the day prior to look over someone elses data set and being unable to do anything other than fume about it. Anyway since you are restricted in sharing the code behind your stuff, I am curious if any of the points, measurements, or techniques I outlined in this presentation are in it? At this point, I would settle for one public test actually measuring a single flow, for correctly applying tcp-friendly principles. http://www.taht.net/~d/Misunderstanding_Residential_Bandwidth_Latency.pdf Regrettably I do not think I will make this upcoming conference. On Fri, Mar 1, 2024 at 9:35=E2=80=AFAM Dave Taht wrot= e: > > On Fri, Mar 1, 2024 at 8:50=E2=80=AFAM Sascha Meinrath wrote: > > > > Hi Dave, > > > > Never got it unbricked, > > Worst fat fingering bug of my life. I so wish you had had that box as > a reference while you developed other measurement tools. > > > alas, but we did finish up the RadarToolkit.com > > firmware, and are currently winding our way through getting permissions= to open > > source that software stack (the federal agency has given the o.k., and = now we > > just need the lead NGO to get sign-off from its board). > > I have grave difficulty trusting any measurement software that is not > open sourced. I look over your website and it makes me really twitchy > - I point people at validated tools like irtt and flent and there is > no, there, there, over there... > > Please tell me you are measuring latency properly? I just took apart > some data from someone else that foolishly let me see the code and ... > pesky NDAs... they are a license to lie... I am never signing another > NDA again so long as I can help it. > > Over here is a classic example of why measuring "average latency" is a > function of the measurement interval. > > http://www.taht.net/~d/Misunderstanding_Residential_Bandwidth_Latency.pdf > > > Radar is a fairly > > extensible Pi-based (and mobile-app-based) measurement tool that enable= s > > longitudinal data collection to document network reliability. > > The site is devoid of useful scientific data. > > We've already > > deployed hundreds of these devices across 4 states, and have documented > > real-time "rolling blackouts" on specific ISPs up in Alaska. Radar is a= lso > > fairly seamless in terms of collecting info needed to make BEAD challen= ges > > (which is this month's hot issue) -- though I'm far more interested in > > collecting baseline intel prior to BEAD interventions (so that we can d= ocument > > meaningful impact). > > > > I remain quite perplexed on how NTIA plans to actually document the eff= icacy of > > their public investments. One of the biggest (rightful) critiques of th= e BTOP > > program was that there was no empirically-based assessment of what work= ed, and > > what didn't. 12 years later and NTIA appears hell-bent on making exactl= y the > > same mistake. > > > > Meanwhile, I'll be very keen to see how the Broadband Nutrition Label r= ollout > > goes -- starting next month, we *should* be able to do the first-ever, > > systematic comparative pricing analyses on a national scale (at least a= mong the > > large-scale providers). > > > > --Sascha > > > > On 3/1/24 08:34, Dave Taht wrote: > > > On Fri, Mar 1, 2024 at 8:32=E2=80=AFAM Sascha Meinrath wrote: > > >> > > >> Hi all, > > >> > > >> I'll be there! > > > > > > Did you ever get your wndr3800s to work? I could send you a box of a > > > few 25 dollar fq_codeled gl.inet boxes to anyone that needs =C2=B4em, > > > particularly those still stuck with DSL. I have also been encouraging > > > folk to run the waveform or speedtest.net tests on the conference > > > wifi.... > > >> > > >> --Sascha > > >> > > >> On 3/1/24 07:29, Dave Taht via Nnagain wrote: > > >>> Anyone going to this? > > >>> > > >>> https://broadbandbreakfast.com/broadband-measurement-summit/ > > >>> > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > https://blog.cerowrt.org/post/2024_predictions/ > Dave T=C3=A4ht CSO, LibreQos --=20 https://blog.cerowrt.org/post/2024_predictions/ Dave T=C3=A4ht CSO, LibreQos