From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mail-oa1-x30.google.com (mail-oa1-x30.google.com [IPv6:2001:4860:4864:20::30]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by lists.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A4B523B29E for ; Thu, 15 Aug 2024 10:36:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: by mail-oa1-x30.google.com with SMTP id 586e51a60fabf-2689f749649so233826fac.0 for ; Thu, 15 Aug 2024 07:36:24 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20230601; t=1723732584; x=1724337384; darn=lists.bufferbloat.net; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=GfYtcqtf73m6yAhyBmyqC42K8ooaldz2HpwLX/FZD8s=; b=hAARarTGlDJsa3vx7IxX7bM/KSLQ5TxSxTBVD+kTYSEQnwGDJjA7Ea9cxx6E7gRbQI dxaPE3ImDtIZqO0bbIZ2QAfZB/fjParcRyjdzcVR3ZG1ePGgGL1Z0QsTwcG+gZCgPJTG CnJ6TGYaw+sEgKTuqGZE+PPs+4ODiMyEUxHIMXSvqBTlo/lXkpgi5hi3UNDEx96e3H3s n09h/HMU8nPuVzOvo1yXfw5lFffQ0AJwidfdMRLDLNdOZwntVtbAaVEYx8/ZT2okX4jO ZmzYf7ArvR4HA6gTn2BlJFzHYN1ULwBpAPdJcoyjw2YIXy3E0afg/bmeByNFxJ1JpylI yhqw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1723732584; x=1724337384; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id :reply-to; bh=GfYtcqtf73m6yAhyBmyqC42K8ooaldz2HpwLX/FZD8s=; b=ocMAWeX6WXvAWhaLC/w/HNOCYBjSg7Z+LPYJPiiG7fLAKPEDTMtM8bn01LHtAVCRvu HX6SiTdSjDUW6nu5pK2Z7EZUhvZS1LQu1ZuCLYAh9FkjO3Wg7ERrATRZB6fS4cpSSH8f c4Cv9NFWAOFMchvn0MR/eWngz4xeJ2s5wlwOroDEKWY2d9aYdCleVsE9QOO8HCcqJpPs OqhIu8cVOZeq0rTu6yiDFPUIhxln8BsE1w8TlUDtfwXPCkIYEPWvVWEfbWbtaOkdT5PG aj0XKTFdjWQbV1Po32WfKJAFzd8Dfz8QW2xpyjZAmpFMdBztBA/IwWPsLLmDpAWzX6f4 1TBw== X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0YwHVVy4aRyOx5UkrIRvf2rTRKdNgy7Ot/OJJIq4JkCeWEduHsFN JSWXKP7yZHDWS1DsXjtLtCTVDNkFU+I6qwCjaidzb6nReIK5IwoL2I/VUCjbHBQo1pTyZadStQl 9Qh52/Xo/Losot94x8YADYJdVUuN6ZQ== X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IFR2OcLwGXGPILumpb8P8WhTD7OfKo1H37ZhgZbcnuX/iiLc5yw9VEtSYE7eqkecKq4i/9Y/WXm53/pUHeJiJQ= X-Received: by 2002:a05:6870:fb8a:b0:260:ffaf:811a with SMTP id 586e51a60fabf-26fe5a038damr6923936fac.8.1723732583646; Thu, 15 Aug 2024 07:36:23 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <9F54B8F8-3B2B-4F45-A197-E6137A74F492@comcast.com> In-Reply-To: From: Dave Cohen Date: Thu, 15 Aug 2024 10:36:12 -0400 Message-ID: To: =?UTF-8?Q?Network_Neutrality_is_back=21_Let=C2=B4s_make_the_technical_asp?= =?UTF-8?Q?ects_heard_this_time=21?= Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000560bd9061fb9c485" Subject: Re: [NNagain] nn back in the news X-BeenThere: nnagain@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: =?utf-8?q?Network_Neutrality_is_back!_Let=C2=B4s_make_the_technical_aspects_heard_this_time!?= List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 15 Aug 2024 14:36:24 -0000 --000000000000560bd9061fb9c485 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I wish I shared that forward optimism, but in my experience "network cluefulness" is not abundant even among otherwise technically forward individuals, and "ISP network cluefulness" even less so (FWIW, I believe this applies to employees at ISPs as well). I'm also inclined to believe that most of the "smart regulation is better than no regulation" folks are also generally "regulation suggested/desired by those who stand to profit is bad regulation" folks, which makes real progress challenging when subject matter expertise almost exclusively resides with those in the industry. On Thu, Aug 15, 2024 at 10:17=E2=80=AFAM Dave Taht via Nnagain < nnagain@lists.bufferbloat.net> wrote: > Perhaps it would have been better to say that "one of the sites I read > regularly just put out an update on it." :) > > I like to think that bufferbloat.net's NOI filing did a bit of good, > getting cited 16 times, but not changing the top level conclusions one > iota. Doing another one this year is on my mind in followup, but aside fr= om > harping on our latency points, pointing to progress, and the need for mor= e > IXPs, I don't know what top level items could be addressed, again? I'd ha= ve > to buckle down and re-read what resonated, and what didn't. > > Perhaps something might come out of the DNC? > > I have been enjoying Carr's negative posts on BEAD, but there must be som= e > bright news in that program somewhere by now? > > I am perhaps reading too much into it, but with a potentially younger > crowd moving into office, perhaps more technical clue is arriving? I'm ve= ry > happy to see mudge make CIO at darpa. The white house got a cto yet? The > FCC? > > PS Ms Shotwell did a great fireside chat at Mountain Connect: > https://www.broadband.io/c/broadband-community-events/shotwell > > > On Thu, Aug 15, 2024 at 6:27=E2=80=AFAM Livingood, Jason < > jason_livingood@comcast.com> wrote: > >> I would say it is not =E2=80=9Cback=E2=80=9D in the news =E2=80=93 it ha= s continuously been in >> the news since the Loper Bright SCOTUS ruling that impacts =E2=80=9CChev= ron >> deference=E2=80=9D as well the major questions doctrine issue raised in = W VA vs >> EPA. As many people have long said, this will be tied up in the courts f= or >> several years. >> >> Personal take =E2=80=93 in the long-term it will be better to have legis= lation >> that codifies this (as well as a national cross-sector privacy law). >> >> >> >> JL >> >> >> >> *From: *Nnagain on behalf of >> Dave Taht via Nnagain >> *Reply-To: *Network Neutrality is back! Let=C2=B4s make the technical as= pects >> heard this time! >> *Date: *Thursday, August 15, 2024 at 07:41 >> *To: *Network Neutrality is back! Let=C2=B4s make the technical aspects = heard >> this time! >> *Cc: *Dave Taht >> *Subject: *[NNagain] nn back in the news >> >> >> >> >> >> https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2024/08/isps-ask-supreme-court-to-ki= ll-new-york-law-that-requires-15-broadband-plans/ >> >> >> -- >> >> >> >> Dave T=C3=A4ht CSO, LibreQos >> > > > -- > Artists/Musician Campout Aug 9-11 > https://www.eventbrite.com/e/healing-arts-event-tickets-928910826287 > Dave T=C3=A4ht CSO, LibreQos > _______________________________________________ > Nnagain mailing list > Nnagain@lists.bufferbloat.net > https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/nnagain > --=20 - Dave Cohen craetdave@gmail.com @dCoSays www.venicesunlight.com --000000000000560bd9061fb9c485 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I wish I shared that forward optimism, but in my experienc= e "network cluefulness" is not abundant even among otherwise tech= nically forward individuals, and "ISP network cluefulness" even l= ess so (FWIW, I believe this applies to employees at ISPs as well). I'm= also inclined to believe that most of the "smart regulation is better= than no regulation" folks are also generally "regulation suggest= ed/desired by those who stand to profit is bad regulation" folks, whic= h makes real progress challenging when subject matter expertise almost excl= usively resides with those in the industry.

On Thu, Aug 15, 2024 at 10:17=E2= =80=AFAM Dave Taht via Nnagain <nnagain@lists.bufferbloat.net> wrote:
Perhaps it would hav= e been better to say that "one of the sites I read regularly just put = out an update on it." :)=C2=A0

I like to think that= bufferbloat.net&#= 39;s NOI filing did a bit of good, getting cited 16 times, but not changing= the top level conclusions one iota. Doing another one this year is on my m= ind in followup, but aside from harping on our latency points, pointing to = progress, and the need for more IXPs, I don't know what top level items= could be addressed, again? I'd have to buckle down and re-read what re= sonated, and what didn't.

Perhaps something mi= ght come out of the DNC?

I have been enjoying Carr= 's negative posts on BEAD, but there must be some bright news in that p= rogram somewhere by now?

I am perhaps reading too = much into it,=C2=A0but with=C2=A0a potentially=C2=A0younger crowd moving in= to office, perhaps more technical clue is arriving? I'm very happy to s= ee mudge make CIO at darpa. The white=C2=A0house got a cto yet? The FCC?

PS =C2=A0Ms Shotwell did a great fireside chat at Mo= untain Connect:=C2=A0https://www.broadband.io/c/broadband= -community-events/shotwell


On Thu, Aug 15, 2024 at = 6:27=E2=80=AFAM Livingood, Jason <jason_livingood@comcast.com> wrote:

I would say it is not= =E2=80=9Cback=E2=80=9D in the news =E2=80=93 it has continuously been in t= he news since the Loper Bright SCOTUS ruling that impacts =E2=80=9CChevron = deference=E2=80=9D as well the major questions doctrine issue raised in W VA vs EPA. As many people have long said, this will be tied up in the cour= ts for several years.

Personal take =E2=80=93 in the long-term it will be better to have legislat= ion that codifies this (as well as a national cross-sector privacy law).

=C2=A0<= /span>

JL

=C2=A0<= /span>

From: Nnaga= in <nnagain-bounces@lists.bufferbloat.net> on behalf of Dave Taht= via Nnagain <nnagain@lists.bufferbloat.net>
Reply-To: Network Neutrality is back! Let=C2=B4s make the technical = aspects heard this time! <nnagain@lists.bufferbloat.net>
Date: Thursday, August 15, 2024 at 07:41
To: Network Neutrality is back! Let=C2=B4s make the technical aspect= s heard this time! <nnagain@lists.bufferbloat.net>
Cc: Dave Taht <dave.taht@gmail.com>
Subject: [NNagain] nn back in the news

=C2=A0



--
Artists/Musician Campout Aug 9-11
Dave T=C3=A4ht CSO, LibreQos
=
_______________________________________________
Nnagain mailing list
Nnagain@= lists.bufferbloat.net
https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/nnagain


--
- Dave Cohen
craetdave@gmail.com
@dCoSays
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