From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mail-pl1-x631.google.com (mail-pl1-x631.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::631]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by lists.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 18FAD3B29D for ; Mon, 19 Aug 2024 10:48:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: by mail-pl1-x631.google.com with SMTP id d9443c01a7336-201e52ca0caso31816805ad.3 for ; Mon, 19 Aug 2024 07:48:57 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=shinkuro-com.20230601.gappssmtp.com; s=20230601; t=1724078935; x=1724683735; darn=lists.bufferbloat.net; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=6PYdnTFBRrC8Dii8NJJ+QfTl6KtxvVZUTSYw/fNP03g=; b=GPo18K4qqDn/6gM6fG3LwI214wEEfvQ6fbnVahldIYMM2Ih9OIz7Bu+Sd5YDucQx0f yQYeLhQMsZJULg+T4bLjq+PsieNdEgqfVJWOAVXMvQASmWVBGOUBIgX7w7pVRt8FJhON SPfEoOF0PnnO1jmS6TzVOEdz0fE3j8VGc8y/ttkZUoK/NdEs643tYFvANN9NgsC7/gyJ o+K7LPmzlVrcEvTmD0rzc8XZId295iwhPiTW63jknt3kdo+tlfA5vX65i1xJz/LbUzi4 RjwXydjmNPCLpeG0fTj0iCaX/tAPmY0bZarfZBlg4lzaoSTialUCZm7GJ9/RztTyb4gG 8n7A== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1724078935; x=1724683735; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id :reply-to; bh=6PYdnTFBRrC8Dii8NJJ+QfTl6KtxvVZUTSYw/fNP03g=; b=wWL81NisTs08E1wdKB/zuDaNBn2tTU8xkdwVAfn7VHbcjpYy3ku1QHPiVR+ZLuI0mk Hau00/1GPJRmK8qkUFtCx7Ln+nphzKS0SpNggiDml5nOeRh26OK2YekdvwAGfv4VFMNH z+0JonUbIi4lyHWmQ3W/U8hrWM5GNGdtoatO3OLZrw0Q7GxDSrYsEYPbi0PWMK82sdc/ /zuAx1VOKot2vTZpVcTxN8ej5ytehba8JKnPl0tvbHelmHr5TjjkvWG4oiU6vPqOjPjM a8r0VTZw6QzNYHp2LHeOwaTOKsNNjtvbPEmFMUwqyM/T4bwgk2QWM3h5n9fBORSgAp7C 4nKg== X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0Yy8ckvMiX9opIuwgunyYvNpyojxK5ogm9c7fDIQfgeJInfAqWJ1 21+CyDVjJ9NhHVVDXTm6Fur4wcyLRAPgD5MRXO2vhX5ASnpXSluPOWrg3P2wOp8QNyCx7Fsy2ii 1hXXU+QANQslOz+d4S21iSArqrnxF8E4rhP/z5oXqWXJpAZ+Mwkw= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IH9bEuP4K0EvV+C0GvqYkMJgfdDHW315KXz5ZTnsGgI/yMOmWzE2CfqTL8SxvGoBCf2Y6aS8Wdo3P/1BAqXXlM= X-Received: by 2002:a17:902:dacc:b0:200:aa31:dc8d with SMTP id d9443c01a7336-20204052e21mr112984565ad.63.1724078935379; Mon, 19 Aug 2024 07:48:55 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <4CFA1F4CC17A444EAFF9A96F1D7CDB2B@SRA6> In-Reply-To: From: Steve Crocker Date: Mon, 19 Aug 2024 10:48:44 -0400 Message-ID: To: =?UTF-8?Q?Network_Neutrality_is_back=21_Let=C2=B4s_make_the_technical_asp?= =?UTF-8?Q?ects_heard_this_time=21?= Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="00000000000082370006200a686a" Subject: Re: [NNagain] public service website slowness X-BeenThere: nnagain@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: =?utf-8?q?Network_Neutrality_is_back!_Let=C2=B4s_make_the_technical_aspects_heard_this_time!?= List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 19 Aug 2024 14:48:57 -0000 --00000000000082370006200a686a Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Time: Many years ago Place: Living room Actors: My grandfather, my father, me My grandfather, observing that I was about to turn 16, generously offered to provide funds to buy me a used car. My father quickly interceded. "Not so fast." "What about gas, maintenance, etc?" The discussion continued, reaching a decision that I should take a part time job. =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D Why not address this problem head on? Do not present plans to Congress for upgrades, new capabilities, etc. unless the plan includes appropriate funding for maintenance and upgrades. Steve SceneLiving room discussion On Mon, Aug 19, 2024 at 10:41=E2=80=AFAM David Bray, PhD via Nnagain < nnagain@lists.bufferbloat.net> wrote: > Part of the challenge is that several government websites usually only > have a budget allocated to launch them - and then they collect dust (the > O&M long-tail). So the lament is that a website that was made 18-25 years > ago is slow to load nowadays (keeping in mind that client-side javascript > wasn't really an option back then either). > > A much bigger problem is making sure legislators when they appropriate > funds for a project that is intended to continue for multiple decades - > those appropriators need to also include in that budget continuous > refreshes to both the web UI/UX as well as the security posture. That's t= he > other side of the issue, when legacy technology isn't funded IT security > postures get progressively worse as sites get more and more out of date. > > Meanwhile we also need to encourage ways for continuous updates to both > the UI/UX and the security to be done that aren't captured by incumbents > who use this knowledge of the ins and outs of both the technology systems > and associated human systems to charge inflated prices to keep things > updated too? > > ... and this isn't only for government organizations. > > Ask Delta about their IT infrastructure and how when Crowdstrike/Microsof= t > Cloud hiccupped, how that created a ripple effect for them and their UI/U= X > too. O&M tied to legacy IT does have substantial impacts. > > > > On Mon, Aug 19, 2024 at 12:03=E2=80=AFAM Dick Roy via Nnagain < > nnagain@lists.bufferbloat.net> wrote: > >> Speed is not the problem =E2=80=A6 it=E2=80=99s how information to be tr= ansmitted is >> encoded and more importantly, how much redundant info is being sent. It= =E2=80=99s >> the MS mindset =E2=80=A6 give me a faster processor and more memory and = I=E2=80=99ll give >> you more bloated code to fill it up! When you put kindergarteners in >> charge, you get a kindergarten solution! JJJ >> >> >> >> >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> *From:* Nnagain [mailto:nnagain-bounces@lists.bufferbloat.net] *On >> Behalf Of *Dave Taht via Nnagain >> *Sent:* Sunday, August 18, 2024 7:03 PM >> *To:* Network Neutrality is back! Let=C2=B4s make the technical aspects = heard >> this time!; bloat >> *Cc:* Dave Taht >> *Subject:* [NNagain] public service website slowness >> >> >> >> This was a damning analysis of many government websites' speed. >> >> >> >> https://infrequently.org/2024/08/object-lesson/#the-golden-wait >> >> >> >> >> -- >> >> >> >> Dave T=C3=A4ht CSO, LibreQos >> _______________________________________________ >> Nnagain mailing list >> Nnagain@lists.bufferbloat.net >> https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/nnagain >> > _______________________________________________ > Nnagain mailing list > Nnagain@lists.bufferbloat.net > https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/nnagain > --=20 Sent by a Verified [image: Sent by a Verified sender] sender --00000000000082370006200a686a Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Time: Many years ago
Place: Living room
Actors: My gra= ndfather, my father, me

My grandfather, observing that I was about to turn 16, generously= offered to provide funds to buy me a used car.
My father quickly interceded.=C2=A0 "Not so fast."=C2=A0 "W= hat about gas, maintenance, etc?"
The disc= ussion continued, reaching a decision=C2=A0that I should take a part=C2=A0t= ime job.

=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D

=
Why not address this problem head on?=C2=A0 Do not p= resent plans to Congress for upgrades, new capabilities, etc. unless the pl= an includes appropriate=C2=A0funding for maintenance=C2=A0and upgrades.

Steve

SceneLiving room discussi= on

On Mon, Aug 19, 2024 at 10:41=E2=80=AFAM David Bray, PhD via Nnagai= n <nnagain@lists.buffer= bloat.net> wrote:
Part of the challenge is that several gove= rnment websites usually only have a budget allocated to launch them - and t= hen they collect dust (the O&M long-tail). So the lament is that a webs= ite that was made 18-25 years ago is slow to load nowadays (keeping in mind= that client-side javascript wasn't really an option back then either).=

A much bigger problem is making sure legisla= tors when they appropriate funds for a project that is intended to continue= for multiple decades - those appropriators need to also include in that bu= dget continuous refreshes to both the web UI/UX as well as the security pos= ture. That's the other side of the issue, when legacy technology isn= 9;t funded IT security postures get progressively worse as sites get more a= nd more out of date.

Meanwhile we also need t= o encourage ways for continuous updates to both the UI/UX and the security = to be done that aren't captured by incumbents who use this knowledge of= the ins and outs of both the technology systems and associated human syste= ms to charge inflated prices to keep things updated too?
... and this isn't only for government organizations.
<= /div>

Ask Delta about their IT infrastructure and how wh= en Crowdstrike/Microsoft Cloud hiccupped, how that created a ripple effect = for them and their UI/UX too. O&M tied to legacy IT does have substanti= al impacts.



On Mon, Aug 19, 2024 at= 12:03=E2=80=AFAM Dick Roy via Nnagain <nnagain@lists.bufferbloat.net> wr= ote:

Speed is not the pro= blem =E2=80=A6 it=E2=80=99s how information to be transmitted is encoded and more importantly, how much redundant info = is being sent.=C2=A0 It=E2=80=99s the MS mindset =E2=80=A6 give me a faster processo= r and more memory and I=E2=80=99ll give you more bloated code to fill it up! When you put kindergarteners in c= harge, you get a kindergarten solution! JJJ=

=C2=A0=

=C2=A0=

=C2=A0=

From:<= font size=3D"2" face=3D"Tahoma"> Nnagain [mailto:nnagain-bounces@lists.bufferbloat.net] On Behalf Of Dave Taht via Nnagain
Sent: Sunday, August 18, 202= 4 7:03 PM
To: Network Neutrality is ba= ck! Let=C2=B4s make the technical aspects heard this time!; bloat
Cc: Dave Taht
Subject: [NNagain] public se= rvice website slowness

=C2=A0

This was a damning analysis of many government website= s' speed.

=C2=A0

https://infrequently.org/2024/08/ob= ject-lesson/#the-golden-wait


=C2=A0

--

=C2=A0

Dave T=C3=A4ht CSO, LibreQos

_______________________________________________
Nnagain mailing list
Nnagain@= lists.bufferbloat.net
https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/nnagain
_______________________________________________
Nnagain mailing list
Nnagain@= lists.bufferbloat.net
https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/nnagain


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Sent by a Verified
=20
sender
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