From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mail-yb1-xb36.google.com (mail-yb1-xb36.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::b36]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by lists.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 17A553B29D for ; Tue, 14 Nov 2023 12:59:06 -0500 (EST) Received: by mail-yb1-xb36.google.com with SMTP id 3f1490d57ef6-dafe04717baso1708377276.1 for ; Tue, 14 Nov 2023 09:59:06 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=aterlo.com; s=google; t=1699984745; x=1700589545; darn=lists.bufferbloat.net; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=vkCOXxNIurX5mmMtTNhqWFTKjkSI0I73bSxBeIpM3p4=; b=NTstBaYlQZY+ULU3aRSdRV23BdmsH1IM0ZlIK38iMJ2Btcr8lWj4QCtPK1UMZw/Q+5 RQIQJL17V3jcwzgi3jThTPDtV6nKNaU3c2R1hh9X+Ce7PgcnRBLoaenX6xPGySGvTiQc Ft5FdKMvjxASwLGAqxpk9eI9lkQoAq7p/WDKA= X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1699984745; x=1700589545; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id :reply-to; bh=vkCOXxNIurX5mmMtTNhqWFTKjkSI0I73bSxBeIpM3p4=; b=vOP8dhoe854Ulodg/BJ06JF8A/2I5ZtWgASfG47EoHn9gw2wqnpDjktL5QXKDjg3Zz C499E0O1rLf3/Iq5JvXrXRNLGLhOvhZ4O5RNo/ZlU9hTcazFwcFsOnOhtjadWL8Y3FUx cKZFhcw1KByj+EgPzeGlJAp5xg/bE7ioYYmQFKnDx2dB5WnaYoBfy0uXpW9PrQToyoME DCCHhr3aitGOkXIn3rZYETIqOLm6QpYsiSZAIjPmnK39g83kYnswqHFvDQvuDd3ehrW/ Xn/nUztkt4j9MT78hIbKUQUyvL6e4QVx+gChuBUEUMHy4rQcZA1Q5HRcYXx7X+ENUnQX FTug== X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0YzmRsb2OUnZhkstb/++d+EZGj7ixqq55OvzgrJhUr2EHlSbey/L Ktl0TCifm7nlQQXr0zzZ2iFMl4NX0QdOsgJszvdeBtjvnGJWn2YP4BA= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IFa7LdXJ9qZ4Z3tdfsRjVUeS26Esn4npGV8jcj+9ZL2aHHMvC3wNwOURSqiFZL36zwxMSHe/ZqXlXdUhG7x6Bo= X-Received: by 2002:a25:294:0:b0:d9a:c204:9cf2 with SMTP id 142-20020a250294000000b00d9ac2049cf2mr9575334ybc.5.1699984745337; Tue, 14 Nov 2023 09:59:05 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: From: Jeremy Austin Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2023 08:58:54 -0900 Message-ID: To: =?UTF-8?Q?Network_Neutrality_is_back=21_Let=C2=B4s_make_the_technical_asp?= =?UTF-8?Q?ects_heard_this_time=21?= Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000deadf2060a208a05" Subject: Re: [NNagain] FCC NOI due dec 1 on broadband speed standards X-BeenThere: nnagain@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: =?utf-8?q?Network_Neutrality_is_back!_Let=C2=B4s_make_the_technical_aspects_heard_this_time!?= List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2023 17:59:06 -0000 --000000000000deadf2060a208a05 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Tue, Nov 14, 2023 at 6:46=E2=80=AFAM Livingood, Jason via Nnagain < nnagain@lists.bufferbloat.net> wrote: > On the subject of how much bandwidth does one household need, here's a fu= n > stat for you. > > > > At the IETF=E2=80=99s 118th meeting last > week (Nov 4 =E2=80=93 10, 2023), there were over 1,000 engineers in atten= dance. At > peak there were 870 devices connected to the WiFi network. Peak bandwidth > usage: > > - Downstream peak ~750 Mbps > - Upstream ~250 Mbps > > How was this calculated? That's an unusually high ratio of up to down, so my suspicion is that they aren't time correlated; they're also not /normal/ or /evening/ peaks, I'm expecting. There's a big difference between individual peaks of upload and aggregate peaks of upload; most people aren't streaming high symmetric bandwidth simultaneously. Consequently a peak busy hour online load, I'm finding, is still much more like 8:1 over all users (idle and active), in Preseem's data set. In addition to speed tests being, like democracy, the worst form of government except for all the others that have been tried, it would be instructive both for end users and ISPs to choose, agree on and understand specific percentiles of expected performance at idle and at peak busy hour. Has anyone solved the math problem of distinguishing (from outside) a constraint in supply from a reduction in demand? Jeremy --000000000000deadf2060a208a05 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


=
On Tue, Nov 14, 2023 at 6:46=E2=80=AF= AM Livingood, Jason via Nnagain <nnagain@lists.bufferbloat.net> wrote:

On the subject of how much b= andwidth does one household need, here's a fun stat for you.<= /u>

=C2=A0

At the IE= TF=E2=80=99s=C2= =A0118th meeting=C2=A0last week (Nov 4 =E2=80=93 10, 2023), there were over 1,000 engineers in attend= ance. At peak there were 870 devices connected to the WiFi network. Peak ba= ndwidth usage:

  • Downstream peak ~750 Mbps
  • Upstream ~250 Mbps

How was this calculated? That'= ;s an unusually high ratio of up to down, so my suspicion is that they aren= 't time correlated; they're also not /normal/ or /evening/ peaks, I= 'm expecting.

There's a big difference bet= ween individual peaks of upload and aggregate peaks of upload; most people = aren't streaming high symmetric bandwidth simultaneously. Consequently = a peak busy hour online load, I'm finding, is still much more like 8:1 = over all users (idle and active), in Preseem's data set.

=
In addition to speed tests being, like democracy, the worst form= of government except for all the others that have been tried, it would be = instructive both for end users and ISPs to choose, agree on and understand = specific percentiles of expected performance at idle and at peak busy hour.=

Has anyone solved the math problem of distinguish= ing (from outside) a constraint in supply from a reduction in demand?
=

Jeremy


--000000000000deadf2060a208a05--