[NNagain] tech feudalism

[NNagain] tech feudalism

[Dave Taht]

This discussion about withdrawing computers from the Danish school
system made a lot of good points.

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39286269

I have sometimes been a bit frustrated by those that want to extend
the internet into schools. I am all in favor of assistive technology
(like flash cards! Duolingo!) but the rest... no.

-- 
40 years of net history, a couple songs:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D9RGX6QFm5E
Dave Täht CSO, LibreQos

Re: [NNagain] tech feudalism

[David Bray, PhD]

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Well said Dave, and what does it say when folks steeped in tech are aware
of the limitations/impacts of too much computing in the classroom?

And what does it say for families who don't have the luxury of being able
to provide alternatives for kids at either school or home other than just
sitting in front of a screen?


On Wed, Feb 7, 2024 at 8:09 AM Dave Taht via Nnagain <
nnagain@lists.bufferbloat.net> wrote:

> This discussion about withdrawing computers from the Danish school
> system made a lot of good points.
>
> https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39286269
>
> I have sometimes been a bit frustrated by those that want to extend
> the internet into schools. I am all in favor of assistive technology
> (like flash cards! Duolingo!) but the rest... no.
>
> --
> 40 years of net history, a couple songs:
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D9RGX6QFm5E
> Dave Täht CSO, LibreQos
> _______________________________________________
> Nnagain mailing list
> Nnagain@lists.bufferbloat.net
> https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/nnagain
>

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Re: [NNagain] tech feudalism

[Dick Roy]

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  _____  

From: Nnagain [mailto:nnagain-bounces@lists.bufferbloat.net] On Behalf Of David Bray, PhD via Nnagain
Sent: Wednesday, February 7, 2024 7:20 AM
To: Network Neutrality is back! Let´s make the technical aspects heard this time!
Cc: David Bray, PhD
Subject: Re: [NNagain] tech feudalism

 

Well said Dave, and what does it say when folks steeped in tech are aware of the limitations/impacts of too much computing in the classroom? 

[RR] Being aware of the limitations is necessary but not sufficient, to do something about it. It’s the “DOING SOMETHING” that matters!  

 

And what does it say for families who don't have the luxury of being able to provide alternatives for kids at either school or home other than just sitting in front of a screen? 

[RR] It’s the greatest systemic threat our civilization (aka humanity) faces going forward.  We are creating a global community of “faceless, emotionless egotistic organisms”, none of which will be able to communicate with each other or have any desire to do so, and the outcome is obvious and inevitable.  The good news is once that outcome is manifest, global warming will no longer be a problem. :-(:-(:-(

 

RR

 

 

On Wed, Feb 7, 2024 at 8:09 AM Dave Taht via Nnagain <nnagain@lists.bufferbloat.net> wrote:

This discussion about withdrawing computers from the Danish school
system made a lot of good points.

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39286269

I have sometimes been a bit frustrated by those that want to extend
the internet into schools. I am all in favor of assistive technology
(like flash cards! Duolingo!) but the rest... no.

-- 
40 years of net history, a couple songs:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D9RGX6QFm5E
Dave Täht CSO, LibreQos
_______________________________________________
Nnagain mailing list
Nnagain@lists.bufferbloat.net
https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/nnagain


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Re: [NNagain] tech feudalism

[Frantisek Borsik]

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It's rather easy and it's contra-intuitive for most of the people:

https://archive.ph/2023.02.07-163757/https://www.nytimes.com/2018/10/26/style/digital-divide-screens-schools.html

"“The digital divide was about access to technology, and now that everyone
has access, the new digital divide is limiting access to technology.”

All the best,

Frank

Frantisek (Frank) Borsik



https://www.linkedin.com/in/frantisekborsik

Signal, Telegram, WhatsApp: +421919416714

iMessage, mobile: +420775230885

Skype: casioa5302ca

frantisek.borsik@gmail.com

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Re: [NNagain] tech feudalism

[Robert McMahon]

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It's about humans being present for others including kids. Taking away screens doesn't fix the issue. Providing safe environments where people can interact, make mistakes, be curious, etc.     This is the goal by my book.

I led a BSA Troop for 15 years. 41 Eagles, 300+ First Class Scouts were taught independence, servant leadership, and community service both by example and practice. Nothing compares to Adults being present and engaged.

Wealthy and healthy have the advantage for sure.

Bob

On Feb 8, 2024, 4:02 AM, at 4:02 AM, Frantisek Borsik via Nnagain <nnagain@lists.bufferbloat.net> wrote:
>It's rather easy and it's contra-intuitive for most of the people:
>
>https://archive.ph/2023.02.07-163757/https://www.nytimes.com/2018/10/26/style/digital-divide-screens-schools.html
>
>"“The digital divide was about access to technology, and now that
>everyone
>has access, the new digital divide is limiting access to technology.”
>
>All the best,
>
>Frank
>
>Frantisek (Frank) Borsik
>
>
>
>https://www.linkedin.com/in/frantisekborsik
>
>Signal, Telegram, WhatsApp: +421919416714
>
>iMessage, mobile: +420775230885
>
>Skype: casioa5302ca
>
>frantisek.borsik@gmail.com
>
>
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>_______________________________________________
>Nnagain mailing list
>Nnagain@lists.bufferbloat.net
>https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/nnagain

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Re: [NNagain] tech feudalism

[Dick Roy]

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  _____  

From: Robert McMahon [mailto:rjmcmahon@rjmcmahon.com] 
Sent: Thursday, February 8, 2024 9:25 AM
To: Dick Roy via Nnagain
Cc: Dick Roy; Frantisek Borsik
Subject: Re: [NNagain] tech feudalism

 

It's about humans being present for others including kids. Taking away
screens doesn't fix the issue. Providing safe environments where people can
interact, make mistakes, be curious, etc.     This is the goal by my book.

[RR] Here, here!!! Couldn't agree more! Humans need help growing up . it's
HARD work!  Without a role model to help, things generally do NOT go well. 

I led a BSA Troop for 15 years. 41 Eagles, 300+ First Class Scouts were
taught independence, servant leadership, and community service both by
example and practice. Nothing compares to Adults being present and engaged.

[RR] I would add caring to the list.  Children absolutely KNOW when an adult
really cares and you can NOT replace that feeling/knowing with anything
else!  Whether they know it or not, the one thing that all your Boy Scouts
(good on you!) will remember as they get older is that YOU CARED!  When
asked what they remember about the experience, they will not respond first
with how well you taught them to "tie knots":-):-):-) "Education is not the
filling of a pail; but it's the lighting of a fire!"  W.B. Yeats

 

Wealthy and healthy have the advantage for sure. 

[RR] Healthy . absolutely yes!  Wealthy . not so sure.

RR  

Bob

On Feb 8, 2024, at 4:02 AM, Frantisek Borsik via Nnagain
<nnagain@lists.bufferbloat.net> wrote:

It's rather easy and it's contra-intuitive for most of the people:

 

https://archive.ph/2023.02.07-163757/https://www.nytimes.com/2018/10/26/styl
e/digital-divide-screens-schools.html
<https://archive.ph/2023.02.07-163757/https:/www.nytimes.com/2018/10/26/styl
e/digital-divide-screens-schools.html> 

 

""The digital divide was about access to technology, and now that everyone
has access, the new digital divide is limiting access to technology."

 


All the best,

 

Frank

Frantisek (Frank) Borsik

 

 <https://www.linkedin.com/in/frantisekborsik>
https://www.linkedin.com/in/frantisekborsik

Signal, Telegram, WhatsApp: +421919416714 

iMessage, mobile: +420775230885

Skype: casioa5302ca

 <mailto:frantisek.borsik@gmail.com> frantisek.borsik@gmail.com

 






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Re: [NNagain] tech feudalism

[Lee]

On Wed, Feb 7, 2024 at 8:09 AM Dave Taht via Nnagain  wrote:
>
> This discussion about withdrawing computers from the Danish school
> system made a lot of good points.
>
> https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39286269

I like the english translation of the injunction report :
  https://media.licdn.com/dms/document/media/D4E1FAQFd_XMkoJOAcw/feedshare-document-pdf-analyzed/0/1706608145644?e=1707350400&v=beta&t=5M_LW6Zk1ZL4YIh4tWV6lo-LQ9xYfZ8s-0mpr1SxGyE

"Before using a tool, you as a data controller must get an overview of
how personal data is processed in
it, and you must be able to document it. That requirement applies to
all organisations. But when it
comes to public authorities - where we which citizens themselves
cannot opt out of our information
being processed - the Danish Data Protection Authority has a special
expectation that the necessary
analyzes are both carried out and documented," says Allan Frank, IT
security specialist and lawyer at
the Danish Data Protection Authority

It's a shame the US Govt isn't better at protecting our privacy.  It's
not like we can opt out of the government processing our data, but
clearly they don't care.  ref
  https://digital.gov/guides/dap/
  Federal agencies are required to participate in the Digital
Analytics Program (DAP).

  https://digital.gov/guides/dap/common-questions-about-dap/
Q: When will the Digital Analytics program migrate to Google Analytics 4?
A: On July 1, 2024, the Digital Analytics Program (DAP) will replace
Universal Analytics (UA) with Google Analytics 4

If someone want's to argue that google _promised_ not to use that data
for advertising, fine.  I won't argue about it, but they're still
collecting that data and I don't see where they're promising to delete
it.
& I suspect it isn't helping all that much, but it makes me feel
better to block dap.digitalgov.gov, google-analytics.com, etc. on my
home network.  And who knows, it might even be doing some good :)

> I have sometimes been a bit frustrated by those that want to extend
> the internet into schools. I am all in favor of assistive technology
> (like flash cards! Duolingo!) but the rest... no.

I got annoyed with my son's school not giving him adequate math
training - the resolution was school paying for a Johns Hopkins
distance learning math program and 50 minutes a day for him to take
the class.  Needless to say, I liked having Internet in his school.

I asked my wife what she thought of 5 yr olds being given chromebooks
for school.  She said most of them end up on mathshelf.  She also
liked that it taught the kids that laptops weren't just for games or
youtube vids.

And for people that worry about kids being stuck to their screens, try
showing them something like
  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mMfAx7kvF3Y
and having them be the creator (instead of the consumer)

and from further on down in the thread:
> Wealthy and healthy have the advantage for sure.
> > [RR] Healthy … absolutely yes!  Wealthy … not so sure.

Wealthy, as well as a two parent household.. absolutely yes.  If you
need two jobs to survive or both parents are working I'm guessing it's
that much harder to put restrictions on screen time or monitor what
they're looking at on that screen.

Regards,
Lee