From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from bobcat.rjmcmahon.com (bobcat.rjmcmahon.com [45.33.58.123]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ADH-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by lists.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 69F673B29D for ; Wed, 19 Jun 2024 18:18:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail-yb1-f180.google.com (mail-yb1-f180.google.com [209.85.219.180]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) server-digest SHA256) (No client certificate requested) by bobcat.rjmcmahon.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 4B49F1B2B7 for ; Wed, 19 Jun 2024 15:18:17 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Filter: OpenDKIM Filter v2.11.0 bobcat.rjmcmahon.com 4B49F1B2B7 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=rjmcmahon.com; s=bobcat; t=1718835497; bh=xpSSzHUClrwVD1ivYV8Ogb5XmuETETGMcNLc9dlahe0=; h=References:In-Reply-To:From:Date:Subject:To:From; b=Gi1rKlF0dMnnjfri5q+8GnL/Qphw2yYQSieHnISnX99sxBG6/ZJymgeltXVqUqLcm ATZ8VIaiO66chwgH0OhLrFscBtzntdT64egFZ4WokeUK5XYS/6bjxaXVhoiMSA4Y9j 9lqESlihc+e2T6AY1whJhI0wDrOFoknz+6w1LJ+o= Received: by mail-yb1-f180.google.com with SMTP id 3f1490d57ef6-dfe43dca3bfso283455276.0 for ; Wed, 19 Jun 2024 15:18:17 -0700 (PDT) X-Forwarded-Encrypted: i=1; AJvYcCXKAjdWRKQiEZCjQwk1TXZYwWS1RlxdGRP77euuzns2Tb/EByPV5812YPIlIZvRKqqRpr5k4GD79175IFG1wY7NP/fForVQWoq/6Ztz0g== X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0Yw51bNE/a1nPfQnjaJeYw+MuiXMQ3yXt40ZOVKAbE7mxwCzMbE7 W94LunFvBlrRgJQSbNypcjZFZ0xrbwDZ6KJ948AhKctyc62ayK0Tj2qIJfz/Bs2LH66Ae1nKA+c atX3yCQuB+wpHvdWyHmlZPpjn8AQ= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IHOaZKh1vkuXoesQ9x5M97c/c8x02RNYp81g59lNpj1ReQ30XihCPekiEGAFYObkFLjjogF32Jbes9JczrTnTE= X-Received: by 2002:a25:9cc3:0:b0:e02:b1ed:620 with SMTP id 3f1490d57ef6-e02be1670dbmr4216680276.30.1718835496473; Wed, 19 Jun 2024 15:18:16 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: From: Robert McMahon Date: Wed, 19 Jun 2024 15:18:05 -0700 X-Gmail-Original-Message-ID: Message-ID: To: thejoff@gmail.com, =?UTF-8?Q?Network_Neutrality_is_back=21_Let=C2=B4s_make_the_technical_aspect?= =?UTF-8?Q?s_heard_this_time=21?= Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="00000000000031f380061b4593a6" Subject: Re: [NNagain] Carr blasts BEAD X-BeenThere: nnagain@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: =?utf-8?q?Network_Neutrality_is_back!_Let=C2=B4s_make_the_technical_aspects_heard_this_time!?= List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 19 Jun 2024 22:18:18 -0000 --00000000000031f380061b4593a6 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable False dichotomy. Fiber and wireless are the end game. The major fiber installers I know say they no longer pull copper, even in houses. The pull strength and bend ratios of fiber now exceed all others. Fiber is one and done. Fiber cables don't have capillary action when submerged per rainstorms. Signal loss of copper at 100Gb/s is in dB per inch. The sweet spot for optics considering all kpis including power per bit delivered is 100G. Fiber is less than 0.5 db over 2Km independent of modulation. Thin as a hair and capacity abundant. Wireless is needed for the unleashing of devices and no more. Maybe 29' like smoke detectors. Those that figure this out will lead and make for the future and have meaningful impact. Bob On Wed, Jun 19, 2024, 2:22 PM le berger des photons via Nnagain < nnagain@lists.bufferbloat.net> wrote: > maybe they'll pay some attention to you in 18 months when the only ISP > doing well will be ones that are either owned by the Rothschilds or trade= a > month of internet for some eggs and a chicken. > > On Wed, Jun 19, 2024 at 10:57=E2=80=AFPM Dave Taht via Nnagain < > nnagain@lists.bufferbloat.net> wrote: > >> Some good rhetoric here: https://x.com/BrendanCarrFCC >> >> I have been boggling at some of the hurdles required to get this funding= . >> I gave up on BEAD last year, as the goalposts seem to be forever recedin= g >> and mounted on unicorns dancing on cotton candy clouds. I know there is >> more progress being made than meets the eye, but to me it's in spite of >> BEAD, rather than because of it. ("in spite" meaning - you are going to >> subsidize WHAT??) >> >> My pithy comment about the "fiber party". >> >> Bead has provided employment to a lot of telephone polishers, political >> hacks, and paper pushers. I tried to point out that many of the goals co= uld >> be achieved by better software on wireless networks; the fiber party too= k >> it over. And oh! Did they party! >> >> https://x.com/mtaht/status/1803510661093392667 >> >> And for the records, I actually rather liked the ACP program. And >> LibreQos passed 154 ISPs deploying it yesterday. >> >> -- >> https://www.linkedin.com/feed/update/urn:li:activity:7203400057172180992= / >> Donations Drive. >> Dave T=C3=A4ht CSO, LibreQos >> _______________________________________________ >> Nnagain mailing list >> Nnagain@lists.bufferbloat.net >> https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/nnagain >> > _______________________________________________ > Nnagain mailing list > Nnagain@lists.bufferbloat.net > https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/nnagain > --00000000000031f380061b4593a6 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
False dichotomy. Fiber and wireless are the end game. The= major fiber installers I know say they no longer pull copper, even in hous= es. The pull strength and bend ratios of fiber now exceed all others. Fiber= is one and done. Fiber cables don't have capillary action when submerg= ed per rainstorms. Signal loss of copper at 100Gb/s is in dB per inch. The = sweet spot for optics considering all kpis including power per bit delivere= d is 100G. Fiber is less than 0.5 db over 2Km independent of modulation.=C2= =A0 Thin as a hair and capacity abundant. Wireless is needed for the unleas= hing of devices and no more. Maybe 29' like smoke detectors.=C2=A0

Those that figure this out will le= ad and make for the future and have meaningful impact.=C2=A0=C2=A0

Bob



<= div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Wed, Jun 19, 2024, 2:22 PM le berge= r des photons via Nnagain <nnagain@lists.bufferbloat.net> wrote:
maybe they'll pay some attention to you = in 18 months when the only ISP doing well will be ones that are either owne= d by the Rothschilds or trade a month of internet for some eggs and a chick= en.

On Wed, Jun 19, 2024 at 10:57=E2=80=AFPM Dave Taht via Nnagain <<= a href=3D"mailto:nnagain@lists.bufferbloat.net" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"no= referrer">nnagain@lists.bufferbloat.net> wrote:
Some good rhet= oric here: https://x.com/BrendanCarrFCC

I= have been boggling at some of the hurdles required to get this funding. I = gave up on BEAD last year, as the goalposts seem to be forever receding and= mounted on unicorns dancing on cotton candy clouds. I know there is more p= rogress being made than meets the eye, but to me it's in spite of BEAD,= rather than because of it. ("in spite" meaning - you are going t= o subsidize WHAT??)=C2=A0

My pithy comment about t= he "fiber party".

Bead has provided employme= nt to a lot of telephone polishers, political hacks, and paper pushers. I t= ried to point out that many of the goals could be achieved by better softwa= re on wireless networks; the fiber party took it over. And oh! Did they par= ty!

https://x.com/mtaht= /status/1803510661093392667

And for the reco= rds, I actually rather liked the ACP program. And LibreQos passed 154 ISPs = deploying it yesterday.

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