From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from bobcat.rjmcmahon.com (bobcat.rjmcmahon.com [45.33.58.123]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ADH-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by lists.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A43CD3B2A4 for ; Thu, 13 Mar 2025 21:12:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail-oo1-f49.google.com (mail-oo1-f49.google.com [209.85.161.49]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) server-digest SHA256) (No client certificate requested) by bobcat.rjmcmahon.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id C19D223BF0 for ; Thu, 13 Mar 2025 18:12:48 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Filter: OpenDKIM Filter v2.11.0 bobcat.rjmcmahon.com C19D223BF0 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=rjmcmahon.com; s=bobcat; t=1741914768; bh=j41Ym8C/YdXEH2RQ6QTgIoKNFq0mdfiz4AUi76kod4w=; h=References:In-Reply-To:From:Date:Subject:To:Cc:From; b=n/DFi2NgUoW1Ks5+8MSVJXWvRaakrwxq8TZnpLPodDZwuvv+rKgDk700D8gqdOF4r zoZrsUNClzSjhozqyqV3zy2oTp/iwRWlcHrvh/jr8Ojx6hAte2FuHN8ESLQYkatcj0 7sIoph2Lc4VCNC61nbKzbyen+xn20qUsNtsp7aCE= Received: by mail-oo1-f49.google.com with SMTP id 006d021491bc7-601e049d92dso485099eaf.3 for ; Thu, 13 Mar 2025 18:12:48 -0700 (PDT) X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0Yw5d8+TViqTg2V473i5om3Xynyw+w+XSVVDg+1YI7mZTDu/+yyB qC1Vsxgevl3ieZDfnyjtIhR/XEtskNnc/SgHvg261STKczd33FvBQH/BSfsS64KCK4bipX0bZ6Y vCAG0XHNOx7DZnSKzCd54PZCtseo= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IFqDPWxxSWc3qHnt+j+FKuQnw5d7o5JuwTJ5OuY9kBlU33c0yfRYp7UdwKIabpI4s8OM8vuYO21T2l05yZsLPQ= X-Received: by 2002:a05:6808:1487:b0:3f3:f90b:f1b9 with SMTP id 5614622812f47-3fdebccff3bmr279271b6e.0.1741914767947; Thu, 13 Mar 2025 18:12:47 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <61s97n02-p131-s041-33qq-6o895q0q6rop@ynat.uz> In-Reply-To: <61s97n02-p131-s041-33qq-6o895q0q6rop@ynat.uz> From: Robert McMahon Date: Thu, 13 Mar 2025 18:12:36 -0700 X-Gmail-Original-Message-ID: X-Gm-Features: AQ5f1Jp_V758cBamu0JoRGpfDZEz5HnaSrmlev7IRb0l9QNCl30Cdavx0SD2HBY Message-ID: To: David Lang Cc: Robert McMahon via Nnagain , Frantisek Borsik Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: Re: [NNagain] FCC - delete, delete, delete X-BeenThere: nnagain@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: =?utf-8?q?Network_Neutrality_is_back!_Let=C2=B4s_make_the_technical_aspects_heard_this_time!?= List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2025 01:12:49 -0000 > so it should be proprietary code instead? Mostly RTL that can't be modified by a black hat. ASICs for ethernet switches come to mind. 802.11 can be done this way too. A Sun workstation isn't required. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3DIujKrI3BlOM "In the context of semiconductor manufacturing, Tapeout is a significant milestone in the production of integrated circuits (ICs). The term originates from the era of reel-to-reel magnetic tape, which was used to store design data. During the tapeout process, the final design data of the IC is sent to a semiconductor foundry for fabrication. This data is stored on a magnetic tape, hence the term 'tapeout'. The tapeout process is a critical phase because it signifies the transition from the design phase to the production phase. Any errors or issues in the design must be identified and corrected before tapeout, as changes after this point can be costly and time-consuming. So, it naturally involves rigorous checks and validations to ensure the design is error-free and ready for production. The importance of the tapeout process in semiconductor manufacturing cannot be overstated. It is the culmination of months, or even years, of design work. The quality of the tapeout process directly impacts the success of the IC in the market." Bob On Thu, Mar 13, 2025 at 4:59=E2=80=AFPM David Lang wrote: > > On Thu, 13 Mar 2025, Robert McMahon via Nnagain wrote: > > > My opinions: > > > > There should be no more linux kernels in the customer premise with > > Fi-Wi. 30M lines of code and 11,000 config options is a form of sw > > bloat that's impossible to secure. Particularly since most noone is > > getting paid for this work. > > so it should be proprietary codde instead? > > David Lang > > > Reducing the radio head/client (STA) density to near 1/1 and shrinking > > the cell size will minimize the media access latency. Packet latency > > can use non queue building techniques so there will be no substantial > > packet queueing delays. All delay will be distance and speed of > > photons related per physics & spacetime. > > > > Our issue isn't regulators - it's that white collar workers and our > > leadership haven't engaged the blue collar workers, and we haven't > > kept advancing our engineering. We need to teach fiber installer > > businesses how to build these Fi-Wi networks so that our kids get life > > support and productivity capable networks that can be depended upon. > > > > And everyone that adds value needs to be paid somehow. Best done > > through markets. Fi-Wi creates high paying jobs in the trades for in > > premise fiber installers. > > > > I think we lack vision and leadership, followed by execution. It's not > > a cult thing like Musk's failed prophecies - it's the real deal that > > impacts our lives. Low latency will become ubiquitous if we act to our > > abilities. Waiting on regulators is like Waiting for Godot. > > > > Bob > > > > > > On Thu, Mar 13, 2025 at 10:00=E2=80=AFAM Frantisek Borsik > > wrote: > >> > >> Hey Bob, > >> > >> I don't think that improving latency is about mandating of a specific = algorithm - it's about an improvements to broadband definition. > >> Broadband that servers the needs of us all today, goes beyond 100/20, = it's should include a low latency, low consistent jitter. > >> Now, what are the right numbers, that's another discussion. But it's a= discussion we need to have. > >> I would certainly let market to decide on the tools/algorithms that wi= ll achieve those numbers - be it a Quality of Experience middle box (like L= ibreQoS, Preseem, Bequand/Cambium Networks QoE, Paraqum or Sandvine), L4S e= tc. > >> > >> As for the other issues that need some love - for example, making vend= ors to update kernel and provide updates to routers they sold, that's a goo= d thing. > >> > >> All the best, > >> > >> Frank > >> > >> Frantisek (Frank) Borsik > >> > >> > >> > >> https://www.linkedin.com/in/frantisekborsik > >> > >> Signal, Telegram, WhatsApp: +421919416714 > >> > >> iMessage, mobile: +420775230885 > >> > >> Skype: casioa5302ca > >> > >> frantisek.borsik@gmail.com > >> > >> > >> > >> On Thu, Mar 13, 2025 at 5:33=E2=80=AFPM Robert McMahon via Nnagain wrote: > >>> > >>> > > >>> > As for "what the FCC can do", "dissolve itself" comes to mind. AFAI= K, it's been over a decade since they have done anything helpful or useful = for any American citizen who isn't the head of a major corporation. If you = delete the entire organization, there will be no one around to enforce what= ever regs are still on the books so who cares? ... and you'll save another = few 10's of millions of dollars annually which will fit nicely in the pocke= ts of the "good folks", aka FODT. =F0=9F=98=8A=F0=9F=98=8A=F0=9F=98=8A > >>> > > >>> I worked with a CA state regulator in a tech support role prior to > >>> so-called broadband (actually, internet access beyond dial-up MODEMs) > >>> This was post 1996 telco act, just prior to the dot com bubble. The > >>> lobbyists at the time disliked having 50 States regulating things. > >>> They pushed made it so the 5 commissioners on the FCC became the > >>> primary regulators. Many call this regulatory capture. > >>> > >>> Unfortunately, I don't think we can get rid of the FCC. Our utility > >>> poles are mostly regulated by them as one example. > >>> > >>> I also don't think the FCC can mandage any specific AQM algorithm. > >>> That's a long term disaster in the making for sure. Let network > >>> engineers and the market battle that out. > >>> > >>> Bob > >>> > >>> PS. Good to hear from you RR - i hope all is well. I've got a Fi-Wi > >>> project you may be interested in - not sure. > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> Nnagain mailing list > >>> Nnagain@lists.bufferbloat.net > >>> https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/nnagain > > _______________________________________________ > > Nnagain mailing list > > Nnagain@lists.bufferbloat.net > > https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/nnagain