* [NNagain] an eloquent critique of NASA @ 2024-10-03 23:03 Dave Taht 2024-10-04 17:45 ` Robert McMahon 0 siblings, 1 reply; 7+ messages in thread From: Dave Taht @ 2024-10-03 23:03 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Network Neutrality is back! Let´s make the technical aspects heard this time! [-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 114 bytes --] https://caseyhandmer.wordpress.com/2024/10/02/sls-is-still-a-national-disgrace/ -- Dave Täht CSO, LibreQos [-- Attachment #2: Type: text/html, Size: 431 bytes --] ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 7+ messages in thread
* Re: [NNagain] an eloquent critique of NASA 2024-10-03 23:03 [NNagain] an eloquent critique of NASA Dave Taht @ 2024-10-04 17:45 ` Robert McMahon 2024-10-06 22:14 ` Dave Taht 0 siblings, 1 reply; 7+ messages in thread From: Robert McMahon @ 2024-10-04 17:45 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Network Neutrality is back! Let´s make the technical aspects heard this time! [-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 803 bytes --] SpaceX is no better than NASA by my opinion. A proper critique was done in 1970 and still applies today. See link. I grew up in Houston & with astronauts & their kids because LBJ was from Texas. Seen space projects my entire life. Focus should be on our planet and robots on the others. The ego centric view of manned space flight is an illness by my opinion. https://youtu.be/wtSSP8FVUGY?feature=shared Bob On Thu, Oct 3, 2024, 7:03 PM Dave Taht via Nnagain < nnagain@lists.bufferbloat.net> wrote: > > > https://caseyhandmer.wordpress.com/2024/10/02/sls-is-still-a-national-disgrace/ > > -- > Dave Täht CSO, LibreQos > _______________________________________________ > Nnagain mailing list > Nnagain@lists.bufferbloat.net > https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/nnagain > [-- Attachment #2: Type: text/html, Size: 1778 bytes --] ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 7+ messages in thread
* Re: [NNagain] an eloquent critique of NASA 2024-10-04 17:45 ` Robert McMahon @ 2024-10-06 22:14 ` Dave Taht 2024-10-07 13:57 ` Robert McMahon 0 siblings, 1 reply; 7+ messages in thread From: Dave Taht @ 2024-10-06 22:14 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Robert McMahon Cc: Network Neutrality is back! Let´s make the technical aspects heard this time! [-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 1370 bytes --] On Fri, Oct 4, 2024 at 10:46 AM Robert McMahon <rjmcmahon@rjmcmahon.com> wrote: > SpaceX is no better than NASA by my opinion. A proper critique was done in > 1970 and still applies today. See link. I grew up in Houston & with > astronauts & their kids because LBJ was from Texas. Seen space projects my > entire life. Focus should be on our planet and robots on the others. The > ego centric view of manned space flight is an illness by my opinion. > > https://youtu.be/wtSSP8FVUGY?feature=shared > Hey, thx. I had heard of, but not heard, that poem before. As a counter, for the inspiring need for humans in space: try: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lD1ixTr4JWY&t=50s Otherwise I do generally prefer robotic exploration. Building and flying modernized versions of this would be fun: https://dartslab.jpl.nasa.gov/References/pdf/2019-mars-heli.pdf hopefully tomorrow Hera launches! > > > Bob > > On Thu, Oct 3, 2024, 7:03 PM Dave Taht via Nnagain < > nnagain@lists.bufferbloat.net> wrote: > >> >> >> https://caseyhandmer.wordpress.com/2024/10/02/sls-is-still-a-national-disgrace/ >> >> -- >> Dave Täht CSO, LibreQos >> _______________________________________________ >> Nnagain mailing list >> Nnagain@lists.bufferbloat.net >> https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/nnagain >> > -- Dave Täht CSO, LibreQos [-- Attachment #2: Type: text/html, Size: 3561 bytes --] ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 7+ messages in thread
* Re: [NNagain] an eloquent critique of NASA 2024-10-06 22:14 ` Dave Taht @ 2024-10-07 13:57 ` Robert McMahon 2024-10-07 14:01 ` Vint Cerf 2024-10-07 14:04 ` David Bray, PhD 0 siblings, 2 replies; 7+ messages in thread From: Robert McMahon @ 2024-10-07 13:57 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Dave Taht Cc: Network Neutrality is back! Let´s make the technical aspects heard this time! [-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 2514 bytes --] The hard part is life support systems and not so much the rockets. Musk handwaves and claims life support is easy, both on Mars and in the spacecraft t/fro. The song reveals it's not so easy to keep humans healthy and well, even on this earth where humans evolved to survive. Musk constantly fails in his claims. His cult like following demonstrates Festinger's When Phrophecy Fails. Failed prophecy which, counter to intuition, strengthens the cult's belief in their leader. It's an illness and not something to promote by my judgment. I think us selecting leaders and peers that work from a basis of reality is they way to improve things. See the world as it is. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/When_Prophecy_Fails " the team had seen that in some cases the failure of a prophecy, rather than causing a rejection of the original belief system, could lead believers to increase their personal commitment, and also increase their efforts to recruit others into the belief" On Sun, Oct 6, 2024, 6:14 PM Dave Taht <dave.taht@gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > > On Fri, Oct 4, 2024 at 10:46 AM Robert McMahon <rjmcmahon@rjmcmahon.com> > wrote: > >> SpaceX is no better than NASA by my opinion. A proper critique was done >> in 1970 and still applies today. See link. I grew up in Houston & with >> astronauts & their kids because LBJ was from Texas. Seen space projects my >> entire life. Focus should be on our planet and robots on the others. The >> ego centric view of manned space flight is an illness by my opinion. >> >> https://youtu.be/wtSSP8FVUGY?feature=shared >> > > Hey, thx. I had heard of, but not heard, that poem before. > > As a counter, for the inspiring need for humans in space: try: > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lD1ixTr4JWY&t=50s > > Otherwise I do generally prefer robotic exploration. Building and flying > modernized versions of this would be fun: > https://dartslab.jpl.nasa.gov/References/pdf/2019-mars-heli.pdf > > hopefully tomorrow Hera launches! > > > >> >> >> Bob >> >> On Thu, Oct 3, 2024, 7:03 PM Dave Taht via Nnagain < >> nnagain@lists.bufferbloat.net> wrote: >> >>> >>> >>> https://caseyhandmer.wordpress.com/2024/10/02/sls-is-still-a-national-disgrace/ >>> >>> -- >>> Dave Täht CSO, LibreQos >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Nnagain mailing list >>> Nnagain@lists.bufferbloat.net >>> https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/nnagain >>> >> > > -- > Dave Täht CSO, LibreQos > [-- Attachment #2: Type: text/html, Size: 6080 bytes --] ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 7+ messages in thread
* Re: [NNagain] an eloquent critique of NASA 2024-10-07 13:57 ` Robert McMahon @ 2024-10-07 14:01 ` Vint Cerf 2024-10-07 14:04 ` David Bray, PhD 1 sibling, 0 replies; 7+ messages in thread From: Vint Cerf @ 2024-10-07 14:01 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Network Neutrality is back! Let´s make the technical aspects heard this time! [-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 3099 bytes --] sounds like a sunk cost argument. v On Mon, Oct 7, 2024 at 9:58 AM Robert McMahon via Nnagain < nnagain@lists.bufferbloat.net> wrote: > The hard part is life support systems and not so much the rockets. Musk > handwaves and claims life support is easy, both on Mars and in the > spacecraft t/fro. The song reveals it's not so easy to keep humans healthy > and well, even on this earth where humans evolved to survive. > > Musk constantly fails in his claims. His cult like following demonstrates > Festinger's When Phrophecy Fails. Failed prophecy which, counter to > intuition, strengthens the cult's belief in their leader. It's an illness > and not something to promote by my judgment. I think us selecting leaders > and peers that work from a basis of reality is they way to improve things. > See the world as it is. > > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/When_Prophecy_Fails > > " the team had seen that in some cases the failure of a prophecy, rather > than causing a rejection of the original belief system, could lead > believers to increase their personal commitment, and also increase their > efforts to recruit others into the belief" > > > > On Sun, Oct 6, 2024, 6:14 PM Dave Taht <dave.taht@gmail.com> wrote: > >> >> >> >> >> >> On Fri, Oct 4, 2024 at 10:46 AM Robert McMahon <rjmcmahon@rjmcmahon.com> >> wrote: >> >>> SpaceX is no better than NASA by my opinion. A proper critique was done >>> in 1970 and still applies today. See link. I grew up in Houston & with >>> astronauts & their kids because LBJ was from Texas. Seen space projects my >>> entire life. Focus should be on our planet and robots on the others. The >>> ego centric view of manned space flight is an illness by my opinion. >>> >>> https://youtu.be/wtSSP8FVUGY?feature=shared >>> >> >> Hey, thx. I had heard of, but not heard, that poem before. >> >> As a counter, for the inspiring need for humans in space: try: >> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lD1ixTr4JWY&t=50s >> >> Otherwise I do generally prefer robotic exploration. Building and flying >> modernized versions of this would be fun: >> https://dartslab.jpl.nasa.gov/References/pdf/2019-mars-heli.pdf >> >> hopefully tomorrow Hera launches! >> >> >> >>> >>> >>> Bob >>> >>> On Thu, Oct 3, 2024, 7:03 PM Dave Taht via Nnagain < >>> nnagain@lists.bufferbloat.net> wrote: >>> >>>> >>>> >>>> https://caseyhandmer.wordpress.com/2024/10/02/sls-is-still-a-national-disgrace/ >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Dave Täht CSO, LibreQos >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Nnagain mailing list >>>> Nnagain@lists.bufferbloat.net >>>> https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/nnagain >>>> >>> >> >> -- >> Dave Täht CSO, LibreQos >> > _______________________________________________ > Nnagain mailing list > Nnagain@lists.bufferbloat.net > https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/nnagain > -- Please send any postal/overnight deliveries to: Vint Cerf Google, LLC 1900 Reston Metro Plaza, 16th Floor Reston, VA 20190 +1 (571) 213 1346 until further notice [-- Attachment #2: Type: text/html, Size: 7407 bytes --] ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 7+ messages in thread
* Re: [NNagain] an eloquent critique of NASA 2024-10-07 13:57 ` Robert McMahon 2024-10-07 14:01 ` Vint Cerf @ 2024-10-07 14:04 ` David Bray, PhD 2024-10-07 14:47 ` Robert McMahon 1 sibling, 1 reply; 7+ messages in thread From: David Bray, PhD @ 2024-10-07 14:04 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Network Neutrality is back! Let´s make the technical aspects heard this time! [-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 3541 bytes --] To Robert's point - humans weren't designed for space environments. Robots do make more sense. For humans to survive space, we'll have to change who we are at the genomic level - which is probably a Pandora's Box we're not ready for yet. Meanwhile China probably will land humans on the moon within the next four years of whomever is the next U.S. President. That may happen before the U.S. returns to the Moon. Either way, a "base" on the Moon by 2035 (which is PRC's goal) even if it's robots - or humans with the risk of loss of life) raises some challenges in terms of SIGINT, GEOINT, and the general ability to hurl rocks into Earth's gravity well. On Mon, Oct 7, 2024 at 9:58 AM Robert McMahon via Nnagain < nnagain@lists.bufferbloat.net> wrote: > The hard part is life support systems and not so much the rockets. Musk > handwaves and claims life support is easy, both on Mars and in the > spacecraft t/fro. The song reveals it's not so easy to keep humans healthy > and well, even on this earth where humans evolved to survive. > > Musk constantly fails in his claims. His cult like following demonstrates > Festinger's When Phrophecy Fails. Failed prophecy which, counter to > intuition, strengthens the cult's belief in their leader. It's an illness > and not something to promote by my judgment. I think us selecting leaders > and peers that work from a basis of reality is they way to improve things. > See the world as it is. > > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/When_Prophecy_Fails > > " the team had seen that in some cases the failure of a prophecy, rather > than causing a rejection of the original belief system, could lead > believers to increase their personal commitment, and also increase their > efforts to recruit others into the belief" > > > > On Sun, Oct 6, 2024, 6:14 PM Dave Taht <dave.taht@gmail.com> wrote: > >> >> >> >> >> >> On Fri, Oct 4, 2024 at 10:46 AM Robert McMahon <rjmcmahon@rjmcmahon.com> >> wrote: >> >>> SpaceX is no better than NASA by my opinion. A proper critique was done >>> in 1970 and still applies today. See link. I grew up in Houston & with >>> astronauts & their kids because LBJ was from Texas. Seen space projects my >>> entire life. Focus should be on our planet and robots on the others. The >>> ego centric view of manned space flight is an illness by my opinion. >>> >>> https://youtu.be/wtSSP8FVUGY?feature=shared >>> >> >> Hey, thx. I had heard of, but not heard, that poem before. >> >> As a counter, for the inspiring need for humans in space: try: >> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lD1ixTr4JWY&t=50s >> >> Otherwise I do generally prefer robotic exploration. Building and flying >> modernized versions of this would be fun: >> https://dartslab.jpl.nasa.gov/References/pdf/2019-mars-heli.pdf >> >> hopefully tomorrow Hera launches! >> >> >> >>> >>> >>> Bob >>> >>> On Thu, Oct 3, 2024, 7:03 PM Dave Taht via Nnagain < >>> nnagain@lists.bufferbloat.net> wrote: >>> >>>> >>>> >>>> https://caseyhandmer.wordpress.com/2024/10/02/sls-is-still-a-national-disgrace/ >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Dave Täht CSO, LibreQos >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Nnagain mailing list >>>> Nnagain@lists.bufferbloat.net >>>> https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/nnagain >>>> >>> >> >> -- >> Dave Täht CSO, LibreQos >> > _______________________________________________ > Nnagain mailing list > Nnagain@lists.bufferbloat.net > https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/nnagain > [-- Attachment #2: Type: text/html, Size: 7575 bytes --] ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 7+ messages in thread
* Re: [NNagain] an eloquent critique of NASA 2024-10-07 14:04 ` David Bray, PhD @ 2024-10-07 14:47 ` Robert McMahon 0 siblings, 0 replies; 7+ messages in thread From: Robert McMahon @ 2024-10-07 14:47 UTC (permalink / raw) To: David Bray, PhD Cc: Network Neutrality is back! Let´s make the technical aspects heard this time!, Dave Taht [-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 5099 bytes --] Agreed. Low earth orbit for humans and our labs is fine. Our mother still protects us there. Humans need energy sources for our bodies and our tools. We're still figuring that out on planet. The last Mars rover ditched the solar panels, arguably the best panels ever made, and used a nuclear battery in its place which has a lifetime of 14 years. Problem is it kills human. https://science.nasa.gov/mission/mars-2020-perseverance/rover-components/ Musk was asked by a serious journalist about his development towards life support systems. The journalist said per experience of covering space over mant decades that these are hard. Musk responded with "no investment has been made", "it's easy" and "it's just recycling." It's on YouTube somewhere buried by chatGPT. We need serious people in leadership roles. Musk rarely behaves as such. It doesn't mean we don't set audacious goals. We need to do that too. There is a lot that needs to be done and it requires us to use our intellect and time wisely. My opinion is we need better on planet comm systems. This can be a major step towards environmental stewardship as knowledge workers don't need to be treated like cattle and forced to work from cubes. Much of my creative work occurs while riding a bike, which is an incredibly efficient of transportation. Bob On Mon, Oct 7, 2024, 10:04 AM David Bray, PhD <david.a.bray@gmail.com> wrote: > To Robert's point - humans weren't designed for space environments. Robots > do make more sense. For humans to survive space, we'll have to change who > we are at the genomic level - which is probably a Pandora's Box we're not > ready for yet. > > Meanwhile China probably will land humans on the moon within the next four > years of whomever is the next U.S. President. That may happen before the > U.S. returns to the Moon. Either way, a "base" on the Moon by 2035 (which > is PRC's goal) even if it's robots - or humans with the risk of loss of > life) raises some challenges in terms of SIGINT, GEOINT, and the general > ability to hurl rocks into Earth's gravity well. > > > On Mon, Oct 7, 2024 at 9:58 AM Robert McMahon via Nnagain < > nnagain@lists.bufferbloat.net> wrote: > >> The hard part is life support systems and not so much the rockets. Musk >> handwaves and claims life support is easy, both on Mars and in the >> spacecraft t/fro. The song reveals it's not so easy to keep humans healthy >> and well, even on this earth where humans evolved to survive. >> >> Musk constantly fails in his claims. His cult like following demonstrates >> Festinger's When Phrophecy Fails. Failed prophecy which, counter to >> intuition, strengthens the cult's belief in their leader. It's an illness >> and not something to promote by my judgment. I think us selecting leaders >> and peers that work from a basis of reality is they way to improve things. >> See the world as it is. >> >> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/When_Prophecy_Fails >> >> " the team had seen that in some cases the failure of a prophecy, rather >> than causing a rejection of the original belief system, could lead >> believers to increase their personal commitment, and also increase their >> efforts to recruit others into the belief" >> >> >> >> On Sun, Oct 6, 2024, 6:14 PM Dave Taht <dave.taht@gmail.com> wrote: >> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> On Fri, Oct 4, 2024 at 10:46 AM Robert McMahon <rjmcmahon@rjmcmahon.com> >>> wrote: >>> >>>> SpaceX is no better than NASA by my opinion. A proper critique was done >>>> in 1970 and still applies today. See link. I grew up in Houston & with >>>> astronauts & their kids because LBJ was from Texas. Seen space projects my >>>> entire life. Focus should be on our planet and robots on the others. The >>>> ego centric view of manned space flight is an illness by my opinion. >>>> >>>> https://youtu.be/wtSSP8FVUGY?feature=shared >>>> >>> >>> Hey, thx. I had heard of, but not heard, that poem before. >>> >>> As a counter, for the inspiring need for humans in space: try: >>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lD1ixTr4JWY&t=50s >>> >>> Otherwise I do generally prefer robotic exploration. Building and flying >>> modernized versions of this would be fun: >>> https://dartslab.jpl.nasa.gov/References/pdf/2019-mars-heli.pdf >>> >>> hopefully tomorrow Hera launches! >>> >>> >>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Bob >>>> >>>> On Thu, Oct 3, 2024, 7:03 PM Dave Taht via Nnagain < >>>> nnagain@lists.bufferbloat.net> wrote: >>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> https://caseyhandmer.wordpress.com/2024/10/02/sls-is-still-a-national-disgrace/ >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Dave Täht CSO, LibreQos >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Nnagain mailing list >>>>> Nnagain@lists.bufferbloat.net >>>>> https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/nnagain >>>>> >>>> >>> >>> -- >>> Dave Täht CSO, LibreQos >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> Nnagain mailing list >> Nnagain@lists.bufferbloat.net >> https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/nnagain >> > [-- Attachment #2: Type: text/html, Size: 10050 bytes --] ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 7+ messages in thread
end of thread, other threads:[~2024-10-07 14:47 UTC | newest] Thread overview: 7+ messages (download: mbox.gz / follow: Atom feed) -- links below jump to the message on this page -- 2024-10-03 23:03 [NNagain] an eloquent critique of NASA Dave Taht 2024-10-04 17:45 ` Robert McMahon 2024-10-06 22:14 ` Dave Taht 2024-10-07 13:57 ` Robert McMahon 2024-10-07 14:01 ` Vint Cerf 2024-10-07 14:04 ` David Bray, PhD 2024-10-07 14:47 ` Robert McMahon
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