From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mail-pl1-x630.google.com (mail-pl1-x630.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::630]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by lists.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 8FD023B29D for ; Mon, 7 Oct 2024 10:01:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: by mail-pl1-x630.google.com with SMTP id d9443c01a7336-20b3d1a77bbso248135ad.0 for ; Mon, 07 Oct 2024 07:01:25 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=20230601; t=1728309684; x=1728914484; darn=lists.bufferbloat.net; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=xSsy26hE42I0PmoiaogzZ5pbbWQqcOF3vItiCYMN3II=; b=OKk5EJzjcJgRhVo3mdKQFvt/3jTm3pLUihDjOdXHtdh/7Bo8KHutuDcWRwOOzlk3lQ 8wVSn7xPmz+n42nsxXSYSR8RHYZmZ6HIUpaDQxizq2k65472o3vd7OpkZvpDCiY8lKVt cWHiMr7ZCwlCH2bJw1e3ZwdEls4exUmIwHUahxalr2ch8wP5UyISvIbYkzEGQQPHu7bT NxM+EGdfdp4sMlv+3RtFB/mkHlVbY0ZsmCdI+9r2taP3uuoa9u40h3aG2mahkVNt2V8m uvWXU4XX7uWQyk/T5awbst7zYlDsRX7N8LVZ2hJw/IoQCPnZ6j+/oM1UbyysgP18wcGg cRLg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1728309684; x=1728914484; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id :reply-to; bh=xSsy26hE42I0PmoiaogzZ5pbbWQqcOF3vItiCYMN3II=; b=oQ0mFcZEFJa5Ch3jM6yLUI2Z/5v9Wg8FKd3cmyxTL6Dnzd2pFQmoL9Os0In4zL4qHq hBu8IdUoOyQIISfsngpTWvLhsv0Jz0jRpTMfASoU7W6Vy9JSEgvHJpDR9jMfYgaHoMEv sQ1NFBxvu0j6b/KtsMJxvjtT8xWeoHEevIKQFYowxHEyHekruafrxsxhg6faSkT+lCD9 oz+05aNTV1BAD4YWWTZ6KjWxcOS1QFivGzqZh176l/GQ7glFjVbvYWO146QAAlE6xSrT LasJ/EH5Uh6tTvkX/p12cQQ4nkopYr7BANOHRy4F+yl5x+O867Ipyhx184AUAeJ06iBK fcFQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0YwCCfne7xrqr1t+npjCV0hoI+dGmgqcc5tMedluAGH1EARqIDzx XCvJ5J1yR6NPbXVV+8uGIe3ZliA29QhbXV5I8pKFBooEO57KBh4OnCzxGKCahMzeRIo/xRGXO+A 2/eQnPKHkCZ7Sr8gGyW3STEgPgOq7sRorRXnOsJ310XmrEzJ5lS4V X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IGcHnNo+7rds8zPE42rFzdNL/j2o29umlci+JKS35Ey6L0aSfUhTvNvox37mbaf6ZvMK+23hBYsKMMpP2u8c9k= X-Received: by 2002:a17:902:d505:b0:20b:9f8c:e9dd with SMTP id d9443c01a7336-20c15a95779mr3253285ad.12.1728309683109; Mon, 07 Oct 2024 07:01:23 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: From: Vint Cerf Date: Mon, 7 Oct 2024 10:01:00 -0400 Message-ID: To: =?UTF-8?Q?Network_Neutrality_is_back=21_Let=C2=B4s_make_the_technical_asp?= =?UTF-8?Q?ects_heard_this_time=21?= Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000ba19510623e374a5" Subject: Re: [NNagain] an eloquent critique of NASA X-BeenThere: nnagain@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: =?utf-8?q?Network_Neutrality_is_back!_Let=C2=B4s_make_the_technical_aspects_heard_this_time!?= List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 07 Oct 2024 14:01:25 -0000 --000000000000ba19510623e374a5 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable sounds like a sunk cost argument. v On Mon, Oct 7, 2024 at 9:58=E2=80=AFAM Robert McMahon via Nnagain < nnagain@lists.bufferbloat.net> wrote: > The hard part is life support systems and not so much the rockets. Musk > handwaves and claims life support is easy, both on Mars and in the > spacecraft t/fro. The song reveals it's not so easy to keep humans health= y > and well, even on this earth where humans evolved to survive. > > Musk constantly fails in his claims. His cult like following demonstrates > Festinger's When Phrophecy Fails. Failed prophecy which, counter to > intuition, strengthens the cult's belief in their leader. It's an illness > and not something to promote by my judgment. I think us selecting leaders > and peers that work from a basis of reality is they way to improve things= . > See the world as it is. > > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/When_Prophecy_Fails > > " the team had seen that in some cases the failure of a prophecy, rather > than causing a rejection of the original belief system, could lead > believers to increase their personal commitment, and also increase their > efforts to recruit others into the belief" > > > > On Sun, Oct 6, 2024, 6:14 PM Dave Taht wrote: > >> >> >> >> >> >> On Fri, Oct 4, 2024 at 10:46=E2=80=AFAM Robert McMahon >> wrote: >> >>> SpaceX is no better than NASA by my opinion. A proper critique was done >>> in 1970 and still applies today. See link. I grew up in Houston & with >>> astronauts & their kids because LBJ was from Texas. Seen space projects= my >>> entire life. Focus should be on our planet and robots on the others. Th= e >>> ego centric view of manned space flight is an illness by my opinion. >>> >>> https://youtu.be/wtSSP8FVUGY?feature=3Dshared >>> >> >> Hey, thx. I had heard of, but not heard, that poem before. >> >> As a counter, for the inspiring need for humans in space: try: >> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3DlD1ixTr4JWY&t=3D50s >> >> Otherwise I do generally prefer robotic exploration. Building and flying >> modernized versions of this would be fun: >> https://dartslab.jpl.nasa.gov/References/pdf/2019-mars-heli.pdf >> >> hopefully tomorrow Hera launches! >> >> >> >>> >>> >>> Bob >>> >>> On Thu, Oct 3, 2024, 7:03 PM Dave Taht via Nnagain < >>> nnagain@lists.bufferbloat.net> wrote: >>> >>>> >>>> >>>> https://caseyhandmer.wordpress.com/2024/10/02/sls-is-still-a-national-= disgrace/ >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Dave T=C3=A4ht CSO, LibreQos >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Nnagain mailing list >>>> Nnagain@lists.bufferbloat.net >>>> https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/nnagain >>>> >>> >> >> -- >> Dave T=C3=A4ht CSO, LibreQos >> > _______________________________________________ > Nnagain mailing list > Nnagain@lists.bufferbloat.net > https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/nnagain > --=20 Please send any postal/overnight deliveries to: Vint Cerf Google, LLC 1900 Reston Metro Plaza, 16th Floor Reston, VA 20190 +1 (571) 213 1346 until further notice --000000000000ba19510623e374a5 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
sounds like a sunk cost argument.

v



On Mon, Oct 7, 2024 at 9:58=E2=80=AFAM Robe= rt McMahon via Nnagain <nnagain@lists.bufferbloat.net> wrote:
The hard part is life suppo= rt systems and not so much the rockets. Musk handwaves and claims life supp= ort is easy, both on Mars and in the spacecraft t/fro. The song reveals it&= #39;s not so easy to keep humans healthy and well, even on this earth where= humans evolved to survive.

Mu= sk constantly fails in his claims. His cult like following demonstrates Fes= tinger's When Phrophecy Fails. Failed prophecy which, counter to intuit= ion, strengthens the cult's belief in their leader. It's an illness= and not something to promote by my judgment. I think us selecting leaders = and peers that work from a basis of reality is they way to improve things. = See the world as it is.





On Sun, Oct 6, 2024, 6:14 PM Dave Taht = <dave.taht@gmail.com> wrote:
<= div dir=3D"ltr">





On Fri, Oct 4, 2024 at 10:46=E2=80=AFAM Robert McMahon <rjmcmahon@rjmcmahon.com> wrote:
= SpaceX is no better than NASA by my opinion. A proper critique was done in = 1970 and still applies today. See link. I grew up in Houston & with ast= ronauts & their kids because LBJ was from Texas. Seen space projects my= entire life. Focus should be on our planet and robots on the others. The e= go centric view of manned space flight is an illness by my opinion.=C2=A0


Hey,= thx. I had heard of, but not heard, that poem before.

A= s a counter, for the inspiring need for humans in space: try:=C2=A0https:= //www.youtube.com/watch?v=3DlD1ixTr4JWY&t=3D50s

Otherwise I do generally=C2=A0prefer robotic exploration. Building an= d flying modernized=C2=A0versions of this would be fun:=C2=A0https:/= /dartslab.jpl.nasa.gov/References/pdf/2019-mars-heli.pdf

hopefully=C2=A0t= omorrow Hera launches!

=C2=A0


Bob

On Thu, Oct 3, 2024, 7:03 PM Dave Taht via Nnagain <nnagain@lists.bufferbloat.net<= /a>> wrote:
<= div dir=3D"ltr">

--
D= ave T=C3=A4ht CSO, LibreQos
_______________________________________________
Nnagain mailing list
Nnagain@l= ists.bufferbloat.net
https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/nnagain


--
Dave T=C3=A4ht CSO, LibreQos
_______________________________________________
Nnagain mailing list
Nnagain@= lists.bufferbloat.net
https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/nnagain


--
Please send any postal/overnight deliveries to:
Vint Cerf
Google, LLC
1900 Reston Metro Plaza, = 16th Floor
Reston, VA 20190
+1 (571) 213 1346
=


unti= l further notice



--000000000000ba19510623e374a5--