[NNagain] Re: Net Neutrality - a battle in Europe: Deutsche Telekom case shines light on 'two-speed' internet

[Vint Cerf <vint@google.com>]

definitely against neutrality as I understand it. Netflix can pay for big
pipes to deliver content to users who pay for whatever rate they want to
access that content. This is an attempt to create a two sided market when
it is should be one-sided. Everyone pays at whatever rate they can
afford/wish and is available.

On Fri, Nov 7, 2025 at 6:12 AM Frantisek Borsik <frantisek.borsik@gmail.com>
wrote:

> Looks to me, Vint, that this is different. It's not me as a customer
> paying for a wider, faster pipe in the last-mile.
>
> DT is asking content providers, like Netflix, to pay for their content to
> be delivered in the "fast" lane.
>
> All the best,
>
> Frank
>
> Frantisek (Frank) Borsik
>
>
> *In loving memory of Dave Täht: *1965-2025
>
> https://libreqos.io/2025/04/01/in-loving-memory-of-dave/
>
>
> https://www.linkedin.com/in/frantisekborsik
>
> Signal, Telegram, WhatsApp: +421919416714 <+421%20919%20416%20714>
>
> iMessage, mobile: +420775230885 <+420%20775%20230%20885>
>
> Skype: casioa5302ca
>
> frantisek.borsik@gmail.com
>
>
> On Fri, Nov 7, 2025 at 12:00 PM Vint Cerf via Nnagain <
> nnagain@lists.bufferbloat.net> wrote:
>
>> Frantisek,
>> how is a "fast lane" different from paying more for higher bandwidth? The
>> latter is pretty common and even understandable. In the US, neutrality
>> meant everyone has the same access rules which includes being able to pay
>> more for higher speed. The users got to determine what speed they wanted,
>> not the provider. Nor could the provider (ISP) choose arbitrarily which
>> services the user would get at what speed. The application providers,
>> similarly, get to choose what speed and cost they can provide service. In
>> all cases, the ISP does not get to dictate the speeds they offer to users
>> and application providers. The rule works more or less like common
>> carriage. You pay for what you get, the carrier has to offer all services
>> to all parties on the same terms.
>>
>> v
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Nov 7, 2025 at 5:13 AM Frantisek Borsik via Nnagain <
>> nnagain@lists.bufferbloat.net> wrote:
>>
>> > DT is at it again:
>> >
>> > https://euobserver.com/digital/ar5da666d9
>> >
>> > "Earlier this year, Austrian and German NGOs filed a complaint with the
>> > German Federal Network Agency against Deutsche Telekom, alleging that
>> the
>> > internet service provider (ISP) is creating paid fast lanes to access
>> > websites.
>> >
>> > On Wednesday (5 November), the groups held a talk to outline their
>> > complaint and why it's important for Europe's net neutrality.
>> >
>> > The NGOs consists of Epicenter.works, the Society for Civil Rights, the
>> > Federation of German Consumer Organisations, plus Stanford professor
>> > Barbara van Schewick, arguing that Deutsche Telekom is creating a
>> > two-tiered internet through having web hosts pay extra for Telekom’s
>> > users."
>> >
>> > All the best,
>> >
>> > Frank
>> >
>> > Frantisek (Frank) Borsik
>> >
>> >
>> > *In loving memory of Dave Täht: *1965-2025
>> >
>> > https://libreqos.io/2025/04/01/in-loving-memory-of-dave/
>> >
>> >
>> > https://www.linkedin.com/in/frantisekborsik
>> >
>> > Signal, Telegram, WhatsApp: +421919416714 <+421%20919%20416%20714>
>> <+421%20919%20416%20714>
>> >
>> > iMessage, mobile: +420775230885 <+420%20775%20230%20885>
>> <+420%20775%20230%20885>
>> >
>> > Skype: casioa5302ca
>> >
>> > frantisek.borsik@gmail.com
>> > _______________________________________________
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>>
>>
>> --
>> Please send any postal/overnight deliveries to:
>> Vint Cerf
>> Google, LLC
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>> Reston, VA 20190
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>>
>>
>> until further notice
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>

-- 
Please send any postal/overnight deliveries to:
Vint Cerf
Google, LLC
1900 Reston Metro Plaza, 16th Floor
Reston, VA 20190
+1 (571) 213 1346


until further notice