From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mail-pg1-x52f.google.com (mail-pg1-x52f.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::52f]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by lists.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 30A4C3B29D for ; Tue, 24 Oct 2023 21:49:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: by mail-pg1-x52f.google.com with SMTP id 41be03b00d2f7-5859a7d6556so4064716a12.0 for ; Tue, 24 Oct 2023 18:49:01 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=20230601; t=1698198539; x=1698803339; darn=lists.bufferbloat.net; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=fvphu3p0mWufMRGoo/KWx13AHU02aSfk4s8P15KIPug=; b=jTI7jyWMbSvmfcour5RfCbux13AEsG9zk9kpf27QgpbRyTGGuJZputECtNgdoqhjPa fH88OMIriXsTIOP0pTT8GOfXW/+eH2tmkZD4IbQQSSU14he4qJiq9YmGuIMUg4YQWpsN G1qPkJaV2mDbZ1su4iPUpCBUwERGvYkc48s6BtPHEnyOAypct4UE0YbfZUpUuV2ZNGsR NYMGkBsq2W22vCkgCHB0QjLL6MLSjyzFtMRQZXTgttdWQghV8vhe94BjA3w4acYkb8dV lmqdZMxi1x7ljGNPthb+Y+ivloLbSs9Zauh6GZH2hGNWWBV8OPaxWQe53c6LQUxSAdcB wLWQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1698198539; x=1698803339; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id :reply-to; bh=fvphu3p0mWufMRGoo/KWx13AHU02aSfk4s8P15KIPug=; b=t1qJ0KUCXcI2aakfqLdGziec0KaVIQ+bWMo0Erps08SFBf2IKt0JCqp2ID1BAh9zZF vZXmrLlXzmkTsf2BQwUgOa5wIlEF1AZy8Z74vtxQC7Pjb5g288RTsubEuPq/+oZhKKwf II47DyDCZezUmjVtZ4ZQlPSgysVjB61+CPz3IwHH349ZTQfiSzMe/8IAWxHCFQJwRWbN fuYTQYEz+1t6npkCF5eR3LyXGBrU/rpexJomPypcH+lyZ8tcwRDTBPNUlgyh4f8r72IO DDO/5kx9c4Q+dgCouojG9d8FEuibW5rz5H90mqmG8UDEjMzXwp5bSPIYvqJUZO+EYvL4 dZVA== X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0YyPUpEv8XVMx5626QQsBhLQZsb5pJ/MLmQ7z1f/AL8cSUd0aiKV XhM0bldGMBRkYdUfFzoF1+TDOH/VGgDHcAHv4K9CDGrDc3nxqVUB07M= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IGjqDoyBNVUBK3RX3q1BGRHJIr6ygUCgJUIzFWIVBMM+gHHO5sFUtQTVFJSYIgjJOyBuMzPWFQ43vRKBfBDT9o= X-Received: by 2002:a05:6a20:54a9:b0:174:c134:81fa with SMTP id i41-20020a056a2054a900b00174c13481famr4952416pzk.17.1698198539083; Tue, 24 Oct 2023 18:48:59 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: From: Vint Cerf Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2023 21:48:44 -0400 Message-ID: To: =?UTF-8?Q?Network_Neutrality_is_back=21_Let=C2=B4s_make_the_technical_asp?= =?UTF-8?Q?ects_heard_this_time=21?= Content-Type: multipart/signed; protocol="application/pkcs7-signature"; micalg=sha-256; boundary="000000000000b9b3f3060880a8da" Subject: Re: [NNagain] Brendan Carr: "Six years ago, Americans lived through one of the greatest hoaxes in regulatory history... X-BeenThere: nnagain@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: =?utf-8?q?Network_Neutrality_is_back!_Let=C2=B4s_make_the_technical_aspects_heard_this_time!?= List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2023 01:49:01 -0000 --000000000000b9b3f3060880a8da Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000aed9fb060880a85e" --000000000000aed9fb060880a85e Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable +1 v On Tue, Oct 24, 2023 at 3:22=E2=80=AFPM Dave Taht via Nnagain < nnagain@lists.bufferbloat.net> wrote: > On Tue, Oct 24, 2023 at 11:21=E2=80=AFAM the keyboard of geoff goodfellow= via > Nnagain wrote: > > > > =E2=9E=94=E2=9E=94https://twitter.com/BrendanCarrFCC/status/17165588443= 84379163 > > Leaving aside the rhetoric, I believe the majority of these claims on > this part of his post: > > https://twitter.com/BrendanCarrFCC/status/1716884139226329512 > > to be true. Any one question this? > > I do wish that he showed upload speeds, and latency under load, and, > acknowledged some mistakes, at least, and did not claim perfect > success. Also individual states had stepped up to institute their own > rules, and I would love to see a comparison of those stats vs those > that didn=C2=B4t. > > The COVID thing I am most fiercely proud of, as an engineer, is we > took an internet only capable of postage stamp 5 frame per sec[1] > videoconferencing to something that the world, as a whole, relied on > to keep civilization running only 7 years later, in the face of > terrible odds, lights out environments, scarce equipment supplies, and > illness. ISPs big and small helped too - Their people climbed towers, > produced better code, rerouted networks, and stayed up late fighting > off DDOSes. People at home shared their wifi and knowledge of how to > make fiddly things on the net work well, over the internet - > > Nobody handed out medals for keeping the internet running, I do not > remember a single statement of praise for what we did over that > terrible time. No one ever looks up after a productive day after a > zillion productive clicks and says (for one example) "Thank you Paul > Vixie and Mokapetris for inventing DNS and Evan Hunt(bind) and Simon > Kelly(dnsmasq) for shipping dns servers for free that only get it > wrong once in a while, and then recover so fast you don=C2=B4t notice" - > there are just endless complaints from those for whom it is not > working *right now* the way they expect. > > There are no nobel prizes for networking. But the scientists, > engineers, sysadmins and SREs kept improving things, and are keeping > civilization running. It is kind of a cause for me - I get very irked > at both sides whining when if only they could walk a mile in a > neteng=C2=B4s shoes. I get respect from my neighbors at least, sometimes > asked to fix a laptop or set up a router... and I still share my wifi. > > If there was just some way to separate out the ire about other aspects > of how the internet is going south (which I certainly share), and > somehow put respect for those in the trenches that work on keeping the > Net running, back in the public conversation, I would really love to > hear it. > > [1] Really great talk on networking by Van Jacobson in 2012, both > useful for its content, and the kind of quality we could only achieve > then: https://archive.org/details/video1_20191129 > > > -- > > Geoff.Goodfellow@iconia.com > > living as The Truth is True > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Nnagain mailing list > > Nnagain@lists.bufferbloat.net > > https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/nnagain > > > > -- > Oct 30: > https://netdevconf.info/0x17/news/the-maestro-and-the-music-bof.html > Dave T=C3=A4ht CSO, LibreQos > _______________________________________________ > Nnagain mailing list > Nnagain@lists.bufferbloat.net > https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/nnagain > --=20 Please send any postal/overnight deliveries to: Vint Cerf Google, LLC 1900 Reston Metro Plaza, 16th Floor Reston, VA 20190 +1 (571) 213 1346 until further notice --000000000000aed9fb060880a85e Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
+1
v


On Tue, Oct 24, 2023 at 3= :22=E2=80=AFPM Dave Taht via Nnagain <nnagain@lists.bufferbloat.net> wrote:
On Tue, Oct 24, 2023 at 11:21= =E2=80=AFAM the keyboard of geoff goodfellow via
Nnagain <nnagain@lists.bufferbloat.net> wrote:
>
> =E2=9E=94=E2=9E=94https://twitter.= com/BrendanCarrFCC/status/1716558844384379163

Leaving aside the rhetoric, I believe the majority of these claims on
this part of his post:

https://twitter.com/BrendanCarrFCC/stat= us/1716884139226329512

to be true. Any one question this?

I do wish that he showed upload speeds, and latency under load, and,
acknowledged some mistakes, at least, and did not claim perfect
success. Also individual states had stepped up to institute their own
rules, and I would love to see a comparison of those stats vs those
that didn=C2=B4t.

The COVID thing I am most fiercely proud of, as an engineer, is we
took an internet only capable of postage stamp 5 frame per sec[1]
videoconferencing to something that the world, as a whole, relied on
to keep civilization running only 7 years later, in the face of
terrible odds, lights out environments, scarce equipment supplies, and
illness. ISPs big and small helped too - Their people climbed towers,
produced better code, rerouted networks, and stayed up late fighting
off DDOSes. People at home shared their wifi and knowledge of how to
make fiddly things on the net work well, over the internet=C2=A0 -

Nobody handed out medals for keeping the internet running, I do not
remember a single statement of praise for what we did over that
terrible time. No one ever looks up after a productive day after a
zillion productive clicks and says (for one example) "Thank you Paul Vixie and Mokapetris for inventing DNS and Evan Hunt(bind)=C2=A0 and Simon<= br> Kelly(dnsmasq) for shipping dns servers for free that only get it
wrong once in a while, and then recover so fast you don=C2=B4t notice"= -
there are just endless complaints from those for whom it is not
working *right now* the way they expect.

There are no nobel prizes for networking.=C2=A0 But the scientists,
engineers, sysadmins and SREs kept improving things, and are keeping
civilization running. It is kind of a cause for me - I get very irked
at both sides whining when if only they could walk a mile in a
neteng=C2=B4s shoes. I get respect from my neighbors at least, sometimes asked to fix a laptop or set up a router... and I still share my wifi.

If there was just some way to separate out the ire about other aspects
of how the internet is going south (which I certainly share), and
somehow put respect for those in the trenches that work on keeping the
Net running, back in the public conversation, I would really love to
hear it.

[1] Really great talk on networking by Van Jacobson in 2012, both
useful for its content, and the kind of quality we could only achieve
then: https://archive.org/details/video1_20191129

> --
> Geoff= .Goodfellow@iconia.com
> living as The Truth is True
>
> _______________________________________________
> Nnagain mailing list
> Nna= gain@lists.bufferbloat.net
> https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/nnagain



--
Oct 30: https://netdevconf.info/= 0x17/news/the-maestro-and-the-music-bof.html
Dave T=C3=A4ht CSO, LibreQos
_______________________________________________
Nnagain mailing list
Nnagain@= lists.bufferbloat.net
https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/nnagain


--
Please send any postal/overnight deliveries to:
Vint Cerf
Google, LLC
1900 Reston Metro Plaza, = 16th Floor
Reston, VA 20190
+1 (571) 213 1346
=


unti= l further notice



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