This has some connection to what the creator of Wondershaper ("Wondeshaper must die! - I always keep hearing Dave in my head, when I see that word anywhere :-), Bert Hubert , shared today: https://berthub.eu/articles/posts/anonymous-help/ All the best, Frank Frantisek (Frank) Borsik https://www.linkedin.com/in/frantisekborsik Signal, Telegram, WhatsApp: +421919416714 iMessage, mobile: +420775230885 Skype: casioa5302ca frantisek.borsik@gmail.com On Mon, Dec 11, 2023 at 7:51 PM rjmcmahon via Nnagain < nnagain@lists.bufferbloat.net> wrote: > My opinion only and not those of my employer. > > I'm ok with people getting paid for doing new work and new innovations. > I deliver iperf 2 free to all, and to be honest, I may be able to have a > better product or, at least some public servers, if users paid > something. > > I think Dave & others run into this issue too. Few to no payments for > their work. > > The challenge for us in sw is that the marginal cost to produce (or unit > value) is basically zero. Then it's the up front costs (or non recurring > engineering NRE) that drives the recovery. That goes to zero too per > amortization across millions of users. This is all predictable by Adam > Smith himself - yet many of us try to defy those realities. > > I get that everybody wants free things. But it can be unrealistic and > demotivating when people demand things to be free. What can happen is > nobody will do the work or innovation (or be under constant threat by > their employer of being let go because free things don't directly drive > up profits required shareholders. Somehow we persist.) > > Bob > >> “A possible L4S end game?” > > > > Doubtful; latency is just emerging as a new competitive factor – > > like throughput. I also think – if we care about reducing latency > > – we should embrace whatever works well and achieves scale (Betamax > > vs VHS). 😉 > > > > From: Nnagain on behalf of > > Frantisek Borsik via Nnagain > > Reply-To: Network Neutrality is back! Let´s make the technical > > aspects heard this time! > > Date: Monday, December 11, 2023 at 04:39 > > To: Network Neutrality is back! Let´s make the technical aspects > > heard this time! > > Cc: Frank Borsik > > Subject: Re: [NNagain] The Verge: The quiet plan to make the internet > > feel faster > > > > Top story on HN: > > > > https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38597744 [6] > > > > My pick for top comment: > > > > A possible L4S end game? 😁 > > > > All the best, > > > > Frank > > Frantisek (Frank) Borsik > > > > https://www.linkedin.com/in/frantisekborsik [3] > > Signal, Telegram, WhatsApp: +421919416714 > > iMessage, mobile: +420775230885 > > Skype: casioa5302ca > > frantisek.borsik@gmail.com > > > > On Sun, 10 Dec 2023 at 7:22 PM, Robert McMahon via Nnagain > > wrote: > > > >> Sorry, this isn't a very good technical analysis. It's a push agenda > >> for AQM. I get that many people's egos are tied to their belief that > >> my algorithm came down from God himself. It's not true though. > >> > >> Bob > >> > >> On Dec 10, 2023, at 3:12 AM, Sauli Kiviranta via Nnagain > >> wrote: > >> > >> I find it alarming for the future of internet that there is a trend > >> to > >> use elbowing techniques to squeeze metrics out at the expense of all > >> other flows. We know that when nobody plays fair the arms race ends > >> badly. > >> > >> Best regards, > >> Sauli > >> > >> On 12/10/23, Frantisek Borsik via Nnagain > >> wrote: > >> > >> Well, to be completely honest, I would say its about general > >> public, really > >> - it’s an article in The Verge :-) > >> > >> But yeah. Here’s something they should address: > >> > >> https://github.com/heistp/l4s-tests#key-findings [1] > >> > >> In general - a potential harm to innocent bystanders is a biggest > >> L4S > >> problem: > >> > > > https://www.linkedin.com/posts/frantisekborsik_jonathanmorton-l4s-ietf118-activity-7128317873571176448-GWAX > >> [2] > >> > >> All the best, > >> > >> Frank > >> Frantisek (Frank) Borsik > >> > >> https://www.linkedin.com/in/frantisekborsik [3] > >> Signal, Telegram, WhatsApp: +421919416714 > >> iMessage, mobile: +420775230885 > >> Skype: casioa5302ca > >> frantisek.borsik@gmail.com > >> > >> On Sun, 10 Dec 2023 at 5:48 AM, Matt Mathis via Nnagain < > >> nnagain@lists.bufferbloat.net> wrote: > >> > >> About L4S > >> > >> > > > https://www.theverge.com/23655762/l4s-internet-apple-comcast-latency-speed-bandwidth > >> [4] > >> > >> It says something about their target audience that they feel they > >> need to > >> explain bytes vs bits. > >> > >> Thanks, > >> --MM-- > >> Evil is defined by mortals who think they know "The Truth" and use > >> force > >> to apply it to others. > >> > >> ------------------------- > >> > >> Matt Mathis (Email is best) > >> Home & mobile: 412-654-7529 please leave a message if you must > >> call. > >> > >> ------------------------- > >> > >> Nnagain mailing list > >> Nnagain@lists.bufferbloat.net > >> https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/nnagain [5] > > > > ------------------------- > > > > Nnagain mailing list > > Nnagain@lists.bufferbloat.net > > https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/nnagain [5] > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Nnagain mailing list > > Nnagain@lists.bufferbloat.net > > https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/nnagain [5] > > > > Links: > > ------ > > [1] > > > https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/github.com/heistp/l4s-tests*key-findings__;Iw!!CQl3mcHX2A!GwQbx9aZkco3K1qGFRsxRUzv1OhKS4Z_VrLHVujgUUvBPCyE0d0IbvZ4TLUixlfHEGkYd3JYZR-qh71u3oORLkrnt_Jjdven$ > > [2] > > > https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/www.linkedin.com/posts/frantisekborsik_jonathanmorton-l4s-ietf118-activity-7128317873571176448-GWAX__;!!CQl3mcHX2A!GwQbx9aZkco3K1qGFRsxRUzv1OhKS4Z_VrLHVujgUUvBPCyE0d0IbvZ4TLUixlfHEGkYd3JYZR-qh71u3oORLkrnt5RQfEuC$ > > [3] > > > https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/www.linkedin.com/in/frantisekborsik__;!!CQl3mcHX2A!GwQbx9aZkco3K1qGFRsxRUzv1OhKS4Z_VrLHVujgUUvBPCyE0d0IbvZ4TLUixlfHEGkYd3JYZR-qh71u3oORLkrnt24e-KKI$ > > [4] > > > https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/www.theverge.com/23655762/l4s-internet-apple-comcast-latency-speed-bandwidth__;!!CQl3mcHX2A!GwQbx9aZkco3K1qGFRsxRUzv1OhKS4Z_VrLHVujgUUvBPCyE0d0IbvZ4TLUixlfHEGkYd3JYZR-qh71u3oORLkrnt4RcaVq3$ > > [5] > > > https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/nnagain__;!!CQl3mcHX2A!GwQbx9aZkco3K1qGFRsxRUzv1OhKS4Z_VrLHVujgUUvBPCyE0d0IbvZ4TLUixlfHEGkYd3JYZR-qh71u3oORLkrnt1kOEovk$ > > [6] > > > https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38597744__;!!CQl3mcHX2A!GwQbx9aZkco3K1qGFRsxRUzv1OhKS4Z_VrLHVujgUUvBPCyE0d0IbvZ4TLUixlfHEGkYd3JYZR-qh71u3oORLkrntyFCpWS8$ > > _______________________________________________ > > Nnagain mailing list > > Nnagain@lists.bufferbloat.net > > https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/nnagain > _______________________________________________ > Nnagain mailing list > Nnagain@lists.bufferbloat.net > https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/nnagain >