On Fri, Oct 27, 2023 at 4:23 PM Nathan Simington via Nnagain
<nnagain@lists.bufferbloat.net> wrote:
>
> This has gone from mere cost-shifting to protocol takeover. Self-hosting is essentially dead because you are guaranteed to get filtered by Outlook and Gmail, which means that there is de facto embrace-and-extend -- "best viewed in Internet Explorer at 800x600" but for a core standard.

This is one of those things that could be reversed if there was law
guaranteeing  freedom of communications. That really does not seem to
be the way the world is going, however.

See: https://www.patrick-breyer.de/en/posts/chat-control/ for example.

I like email (and netnews). You had a copy, the recipients had copies,
and pretty much anyone that had the capability of snooping in-between
had copies.  Nobody ever got arround to making starttls mandatory.
Compare this to all the even more centralized, but incompatible chat
systems since, multiple ones that have vanished from the web (g+), and
others that are barely hanging on, like disquis.

Even with the flight to mastodon and other heavily encrypted home
server technologies, email remains the most common, useful and
malleable public identifier for connecting people to people. I would
like to make it better, for everyone, again.


> On Fri, Oct 27, 2023 at 5:48 PM Hal Murray via Nnagain <nnagain@lists.bufferbloat.net> wrote:
>>
>> [Was Amtrack]
>>
>>
>> > 2) I could get mad that I figure 80% of this new email list is vanishing into
>> > spam boxes.
>>
>>
>> > What of the 10s of thousands of other emails that have come over the years
>> > not just from lists.bufferbloat.net but from people trying honestly to
>> > communicate?
>>
>> There is/was a good discussion of all the good things that network geeks have
>> done.
>>
>> How about discussing the things they haven't done?
>>
>> Spam would be pretty high on my list.  It's tangled up with (in)security -- a
>> lot comes from infected systems or phished accounts.
>>
>> The current approach to spam is cost shifting.  If you don't pay for your
>> abuse desk, the crap that you send or phishing sites you host..., means that
>> the rest of the net has to spend more on defense.
>>
>> Anybody remember Spamford Wallace?  He was going to setup a spam friendly ISP.
>>  Nobody would connect to him.  I wonder what would happen if a few ISPs that
>> host a lot of abuse had  more troubles getting connected to the net.  Would a
>> few well publicized examples be enough to spread the word?
>>
>>
>>
>> High on my list would be dis/mis-information.  The business model seems to be
>> to show customers things that will keep them online so you can show them more
>> ads.  Gues what does that?
>>
>> Is this also cost shifting?  It's society as a whole that has to pay for the
>> disruption caused by bogus information.
>>
>>
>> --
>> These are my opinions.  I hate spam.
>>
>>
>>
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>
>
>
> --
> Nathan Simington
> cell: 305-793-6899
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--
Oct 30: https://netdevconf.info/0x17/news/the-maestro-and-the-music-bof.html
Dave Täht CSO, LibreQos
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