From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mail-qt1-x82d.google.com (mail-qt1-x82d.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::82d]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by lists.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 282AE3CB37; Mon, 13 Nov 2023 08:11:34 -0500 (EST) Received: by mail-qt1-x82d.google.com with SMTP id d75a77b69052e-41cd6e1d4fbso25814711cf.1; Mon, 13 Nov 2023 05:11:34 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20230601; t=1699881093; x=1700485893; darn=lists.bufferbloat.net; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=c/FiZLnm7GoN4pUvK0BRDrBVcNzG/qNX5x/J6HscRbM=; b=AisVGzroIAERzWE3HLq2/Jq+T47DMHXyQw6jHVXbzNFyBjAKpd1SZV7gS9GdkMELqN 3dmxScTA0ZL9P31wp7RjEwToU4JdUn6VfAJ3mLdpBIYeFOY+jIdNfXaudpYMjOS5UWYt wbAZTq3nzvLt08KFE00yvqiAt17elUF2yyIdEURk8D5sPwwhjfT/gzAnA8NPX3IivXMW lKHq0iqpuEKimqyGifo2DlpopJKGJIlgxsuydJ4bmTnfE5w0qTFON4jVryRzB3GurmEf uBjwKZrql9IEK3ARGE6R8DF2MFXL9OjVwLk5DGmXJdE0fMMDsrb4pVtQe9zi2DuMJ8hp WVdg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1699881093; x=1700485893; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id :reply-to; bh=c/FiZLnm7GoN4pUvK0BRDrBVcNzG/qNX5x/J6HscRbM=; b=kpbV45QVFLQMe9WUjGtLf09Rj4sGbdpxDU607QO/2FoFzOZvyEdcH6JqZFprDQg8ti 5YwAi7JhSy4uPQbt9cmqT1jDNybWNCQlA5ZNHxtq+1pifu9oac3QMN2Nb0yb7RjJMwq6 ldtWedUfTkNjE5CdXCvT67tmo8SfvJ8xXThbLBpx73yqRNXLF5qmhAdH5zclVekZ9NSK c/+y/X+gUfGtzsF4C8+rke++SHD6kBNNpAf2sH9HunbE5dpBncFUbOEz3y+fOb8iimb9 Na58j+mRXhNB1VAi3DNcxWacliCUxjdweJmL582dJ+Ugr4t2jDi7PnImaZ9DACbv/gSP Zl/w== X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0YwPTfhE0PUKaiLumh30gGQgT/7m95dDr1UZLPchV660AoZEaEUw jqXo+LqDa54DnEX9j0G72zKyn3wewSgjmvvYifTj+90ot+I= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IFxWh4wr+gHGPUIO6nko/EGPTbi35Xpc2xC5PBPhHKN48kFAfVaiSQajZs2eAr4HVadAS8xBEwvViLBO4uw8gs= X-Received: by 2002:ac8:5f11:0:b0:420:5b9b:2dc with SMTP id x17-20020ac85f11000000b004205b9b02dcmr5687060qta.36.1699881093475; Mon, 13 Nov 2023 05:11:33 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: From: Frantisek Borsik Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2023 14:10:57 +0100 Message-ID: To: =?UTF-8?Q?Network_Neutrality_is_back=21_Let=C2=B4s_make_the_technical_asp?= =?UTF-8?Q?ects_heard_this_time=21?= Cc: Dave Taht via Starlink , Dave Taht Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000bcb321060a0868f2" Subject: Re: [NNagain] the real state of "smart agriculture"? X-BeenThere: nnagain@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: =?utf-8?q?Network_Neutrality_is_back!_Let=C2=B4s_make_the_technical_aspects_heard_this_time!?= List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2023 13:11:34 -0000 --000000000000bcb321060a0868f2 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable ...and "deez nuts" almond/water/California story is even older: https://thegrayzone.com/2018/12/04/pistachio-wars-how-the-resnicks-snack-fo= od-fortune-is-fueling-the-assault-on-iran/ Originating with Iranian revolution, Carter, CIA and Resnicks. It's always fascinating to me how things are intertwined. All the best, Frank Frantisek (Frank) Borsik https://www.linkedin.com/in/frantisekborsik Signal, Telegram, WhatsApp: +421919416714 iMessage, mobile: +420775230885 Skype: casioa5302ca frantisek.borsik@gmail.com On Mon, Nov 13, 2023 at 1:45=E2=80=AFPM Dave Taht via Nnagain < nnagain@lists.bufferbloat.net> wrote: > (I am hoping others on this list with real-world AG experience can > chime in? I enjoy realworld stories about present solutions and pain > points[2]) > > I have often been dubious of the 5g hope to dominate any major > component of a smart ag architecture except perhaps FWA, (where > starlink is poised and people also want to run fiber) to give it a > good run for the money- 5g chips are too big, too hard to power, and > too complex, and come with a monthly billing model and other > centralized requirements that make organic evolution and solid support > in remote environments dicy and expensive. > > I freely concede that I may be wrong, that with sufficient subsidies, > we will end up hanging the equivalent of a cellphone off of every > suitably large piece of gear and ship all the data up to the cloud, > rather than pre-process locally. Certainly the benefits of gps and > drones are being shown every day, along with satellite weather and > other forms of satellite analysis. [1] > > But the 5g sensor market? No. Nowadays smart sensors are easily > constructed out of wifi devices such as these which cost 5 dollars or > less: > > > https://www.amazon.com/DORHEA-Development-Microcontroller-NodeMCU-32S-ESP= -WROOM-32/dp/B086MJGFVV/ref=3Dasc_df_B086MJGFVV/ > > And the more meshy LoRA stuff now has much better range (4 miles), at > low complexity and power also. > > then there are things like amazon sidewalk: > https://www.amazon.com/Amazon-Sidewalk/b?ie=3DUTF8&node=3D21328123011 > > And airtags. > > [1] On the other hand rigorous analysis of the food we produce has > recently discovered a marked decline in the percentage of nutritious > minerals over the past 100 years. Please see: > > https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/09637486.2021.1981831 > > How smart is that? > > [2] Massive subsidy and diversion of river resources to the water > hungry california almond industry during the last 7 years of drought > led to the cancellation of the salmon fishing season last year. > > You should hear some of the invective that I used to hear aimed at > "the f-ing vegetarians" along the docks I frequent in half moon bay. > That I used to hear, anyway, The docks are eerily silent, the workers > at other jobs, the boats not going out for anything except crab and > squid. > > How smart is that? The California water table is a disaster, too. I > vastly prefer salmon to almonds personally.... > > I guess a meta point is easily gathering tactical data is one thing, > sharing it sanely another, deciding on how to use it strategically, > another. > > -- > :( My old R&D campus is up for sale: https://tinyurl.com/yurtlab > Dave T=C3=A4ht CSO, LibreQos > _______________________________________________ > Nnagain mailing list > Nnagain@lists.bufferbloat.net > https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/nnagain > --000000000000bcb321060a0868f2 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
...and "deez nuts" almond/water/California story= is even older:=C2=A0https://thegrayzone.com/2018/12/04/pistachio-wars-how-the-resnicks-snack-f= ood-fortune-is-fueling-the-assault-on-iran/

Originat= ing with Iranian revolution, Carter, CIA and Resnicks.=C2=A0

=
It's always fascinating to me how things are intertwined.

All the best,

<= p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"color:rgb(34,34,34)">Frank

=

Frantisek (Frank) Borsik

=C2=A0

https://www.linkedin.com/in/frantisekborsik

Signal= , Telegram, WhatsApp: +421919416714=C2=A0

iMessage, mobile: +420775230885=

Skype: casi= oa5302ca

frantisek.borsik@gmail.com



On M= on, Nov 13, 2023 at 1:45=E2=80=AFPM Dave Taht via Nnagain <nnagain@lists.bufferbloat.net> w= rote:
(I am hoping others on this list with real-= world AG experience can
chime in? I enjoy realworld stories about present solutions and pain
points[2])

I have often been dubious of the 5g hope to dominate any major
component of a smart ag architecture except perhaps FWA, (where
starlink is poised and people also want to run fiber) to give it a
good run for the money- 5g chips are too big, too hard to power, and
too complex, and come with a monthly billing model and other
centralized requirements that make organic evolution and solid support
in remote environments dicy and expensive.

I freely concede that I may be wrong, that with sufficient subsidies,
we will end up hanging the equivalent of a cellphone off of every
suitably large piece of gear and ship all the data up to the cloud,
rather than pre-process locally. Certainly the benefits of gps and
drones are being shown every day, along with satellite weather and
other forms of satellite analysis. [1]

But the 5g sensor market? No. Nowadays smart sensors are easily
constructed out of wifi devices such as these which cost 5 dollars or
less:

https://www.amazon.com/DORHEA-Development-Microcontrol= ler-NodeMCU-32S-ESP-WROOM-32/dp/B086MJGFVV/ref=3Dasc_df_B086MJGFVV/

And the more meshy LoRA stuff now has much better range (4 miles), at
low complexity and power also.

then there are things like amazon sidewalk:
https://www.amazon.com/Amaz= on-Sidewalk/b?ie=3DUTF8&node=3D21328123011

And airtags.

[1] On the other hand rigorous analysis of the food we produce has
recently discovered a marked decline in the percentage of nutritious
minerals over the past 100 years. Please see:

https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/fu= ll/10.1080/09637486.2021.1981831

How smart is that?

[2] Massive subsidy and diversion of river resources to the water
hungry california almond industry during the last 7 years of drought
led to the cancellation of the salmon fishing season last year.

You should hear some of the invective that I used to hear aimed at
"the f-ing vegetarians" along the docks I frequent in half moon b= ay.
That I used to hear, anyway, The docks are eerily silent, the workers
at other jobs, the boats not going out for anything except crab and
squid.

How smart is that? The California water table is a disaster, too. I
vastly prefer salmon to almonds personally....

I guess a meta point is easily gathering tactical data is one thing,
sharing it sanely another, deciding on how to use it strategically,
another.

--
:( My old R&D campus is up for sale: https://tinyurl.com/yurtlab<= br> Dave T=C3=A4ht CSO, LibreQos
_______________________________________________
Nnagain mailing list
Nnagain@= lists.bufferbloat.net
https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/nnagain
--000000000000bcb321060a0868f2--