[NNagain] NN review in the UK

[NNagain] NN review in the UK

[Sebastian Moeller]

Dear All,

I have been pointed at Ofcom's statement on Net neutrality for October 2023: 

https://www.ofcom.org.uk/consultations-and-statements/category-1/net-neutrality-review

Here is the meat of that statement sans the links at the end (the email will be clasified as spam if it contains too many links, I hope the one above does not trigger it yet):

Statement published 26 October 2023

Net neutrality supports the ‘open internet’, ensuring that users of the internet (both consumers and those making and distributing content) are in control of what they see and do online – not the broadband or mobile providers (otherwise known as internet service providers or ISPs). The net neutrality rules make sure that the traffic carried across broadband and mobile networks is treated equally and particular content or services are not prioritised or slowed down in a way that favours some over others. We want to make sure that as technology evolves and more of our lives move online, net neutrality continues to support innovation, investment and growth, by both content providers and ISPs.

The current net neutrality rules are set out in legislation. Any changes to the rules in future would be a matter for Government and Parliament. Ofcom is responsible for monitoring and ensuring compliance with the rules and providing guidance on how ISPs should follow them. In 2021 we started a review of net neutrality.

Our review has found that, in general, it has worked well and supported consumer choice as well as enabling content providers to deliver their content and services to consumers. However, there are specific areas where we provide more clarity in our guidance to enable ISPs to innovate and manage their networks more efficiently, to improve consumer outcome.

	• ISPs can offer premium quality retail offers: Allowing ISPs to provide premium quality retail packages means they can better meet some consumers’ needs. For example, people who use high quality virtual reality applications may want to buy a premium quality service, while users who mainly stream and browse the internet can buy a cheaper package. Our updated guidance clarifies that ISPs can offer premium packages, for example offering low latency, as long as they are sufficiently clear to customers about what they can expect from the services they buy.
	• ISPs can develop new ‘specialised services’: New 5G and full fibre networks offer the opportunity for ISPs to innovate and develop their services. Our updated guidance clarifies when they can provide ‘specialised services’ to deliver specific content and applications that need to be optimised, which might include real time communications, virtual reality and driverless vehicles.
	• ISPs can use traffic management measures to manage their networks: Traffic management can be used by ISPs on their networks, so that a good quality of service is maintained for consumers. Our updated guidance clarifies when and how ISPs can use traffic management, including the different approaches they can take and how they can distinguish between different categories of traffic based on their technical requirements.
	• Most zero-rating offers will be allowed: Zero-rating is where the data used by certain websites or apps is not counted towards a customer’s overall data allowance. Our updated guidance clarifies that we will generally allow these offers, while setting out the limited circumstances where we might have concerns.


I note however, that when I try to access that page today I get a cloadflare error:
Sorry, you have been blocked
You are unable to access ofcom.squizedge.cloud

Which might indicate that some parts of the network are not acting in good faith (or I was just unlucky with my current IP address)

I also note (as Ofcom does itself) that since Brexit the UK is not bound to the EU's regulation 2015/2120 (see https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/de/TXT/?uri=CELEX%3A32015R2120 ).

Regards
	Sebastian

Re: [NNagain] NN review in the UK

[Livingood, Jason]

On 10/28/23, 06:01, "Nnagain on behalf of Sebastian Moeller via Nnagain" <nnagain-
> For example, people who use high quality virtual reality applications may want to buy a premium quality service, while users who mainly stream and browse the internet can buy a cheaper package. Our updated guidance clarifies that ISPs can offer premium packages, for example offering low latency, as long as they are sufficiently clear to customers about what they can expect from the services they buy.

Sigh. Wish more regulators knew about modern AQMs - we can have our cake and eat it too. The solution above seems to pre-suppose the need for QoS but this isn't a capacity problem. 

JL

Re: [NNagain] NN review in the UK

[Mike Conlow]

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+1. My understanding is the origins of this item in the NN review in the UK
is that  ISPs requested it because of lack of clarity around whether
"premium quality service" offerings violated NN rules. See page 63-64 here
<https://www.ofcom.org.uk/__data/assets/pdf_file/0028/245926/net-neutrality-review.pdf>.
Screenshot below:

[image: Screenshot 2023-10-30 at 11.08.48 AM.png]

On Mon, Oct 30, 2023 at 10:26 AM Livingood, Jason via Nnagain <
nnagain@lists.bufferbloat.net> wrote:

> On 10/28/23, 06:01, "Nnagain on behalf of Sebastian Moeller via Nnagain"
> <nnagain-
> > For example, people who use high quality virtual reality applications
> may want to buy a premium quality service, while users who mainly stream
> and browse the internet can buy a cheaper package. Our updated guidance
> clarifies that ISPs can offer premium packages, for example offering low
> latency, as long as they are sufficiently clear to customers about what
> they can expect from the services they buy.
>
> Sigh. Wish more regulators knew about modern AQMs - we can have our cake
> and eat it too. The solution above seems to pre-suppose the need for QoS
> but this isn't a capacity problem.
>
> JL
>
> _______________________________________________
> Nnagain mailing list
> Nnagain@lists.bufferbloat.net
> https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/nnagain
>

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Re: [NNagain] [EXTERNAL] Re: NN review in the UK

[Livingood, Jason]

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Thx for the pointer to that section. Seems like some legacy thinking in that the view is the network rather than edge needs to do the heavy lifting on congestion control. But maybe with UK leased access there’s routine daily congestion (not enough capacity)?

Looking at 6.28 I don’t see why an ISP could not charge more for a low latency service if that service was delivered at the same best effort QoS as the baseline service – which is possible with current AQMs. Not knowing as much about UK regs – maybe that is the issue? That it is unclear whether there can be any price/feature differentiation for broadband services even at the same level of best effort QoS?

JL

From: Mike Conlow <mconlow@cloudflare.com>
Date: Monday, October 30, 2023 at 11:14
To: Network Neutrality is back! Let´s make the technical aspects heard this time! <nnagain@lists.bufferbloat.net>
Cc: Jason Livingood <jason_livingood@comcast.com>
Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: [NNagain] NN review in the UK

+1. My understanding is the origins of this item in the NN review in the UK is that  ISPs requested it because of lack of clarity around whether "premium quality service" offerings violated NN rules. See page 63-64 here<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/www.ofcom.org.uk/__data/assets/pdf_file/0028/245926/net-neutrality-review.pdf__;!!CQl3mcHX2A!ErUN6Nq2hd-S88MFqYrqwFhfFKN93rTuYy_MrrQMvwrAUBC8kQ1ZpHnPt6_zuqhoVQJ1uK6IxZPFbU5BkJwTwLYDDg$>. Screenshot below:

[cid:image001.png@01DA0B26.CF03B380]

On Mon, Oct 30, 2023 at 10:26 AM Livingood, Jason via Nnagain <nnagain@lists.bufferbloat.net<mailto:nnagain@lists.bufferbloat.net>> wrote:
On 10/28/23, 06:01, "Nnagain on behalf of Sebastian Moeller via Nnagain" <nnagain-
> For example, people who use high quality virtual reality applications may want to buy a premium quality service, while users who mainly stream and browse the internet can buy a cheaper package. Our updated guidance clarifies that ISPs can offer premium packages, for example offering low latency, as long as they are sufficiently clear to customers about what they can expect from the services they buy.

Sigh. Wish more regulators knew about modern AQMs - we can have our cake and eat it too. The solution above seems to pre-suppose the need for QoS but this isn't a capacity problem.

JL

_______________________________________________
Nnagain mailing list
Nnagain@lists.bufferbloat.net<mailto:Nnagain@lists.bufferbloat.net>
https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/nnagain<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/nnagain__;!!CQl3mcHX2A!ErUN6Nq2hd-S88MFqYrqwFhfFKN93rTuYy_MrrQMvwrAUBC8kQ1ZpHnPt6_zuqhoVQJ1uK6IxZPFbU5BkJwtGoJWVg$>

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Re: [NNagain] NN review in the UK

[Sebastian Moeller]

Regards

I wonder somewhat to what degree VF's motivation was closer to its own bottom line (so having an additional service dimension to monetize) than trying to help achieve its end-users latency desires...

And that is to a degree fine with me as an end-user... an ISP might as well bill me (a bit) for proper download traffic shaping on my ingress, as long as the attractiveness of that service is not artificially enhanced by making the normal service worse... (that is if I can decide to run my own download shaping/scheduling/AQM or for similar responsiveness to off-load that to the ISP, I am game).

But as I understand, such a service is already permissible under existing EU and UK rules (as stated by Ofcom, they can not make new law, all they do is clarify how the existing rules are going to be enforced/interpreted by them in their role as NRA).

Regards
	Sebastian



> On Oct 30, 2023, at 16:12, Mike Conlow via Nnagain <nnagain@lists.bufferbloat.net> wrote:
> 
> +1. My understanding is the origins of this item in the NN review in the UK is that  ISPs requested it because of lack of clarity around whether "premium quality service" offerings violated NN rules.

	[SM] Thanks for that piece of information, that makes a ton of sense and explains IMHO the tone of the document... (all the details I looked at are such that I might not have picked the precise positions but all seem pretty defensible and almost boringly balanced ;) )

Thanks & Regards
	Sebastian


> See page 63-64 here. Screenshot below:
> 
> <Screenshot 2023-10-30 at 11.08.48 AM.png>
> 
> On Mon, Oct 30, 2023 at 10:26 AM Livingood, Jason via Nnagain <nnagain@lists.bufferbloat.net> wrote:
> On 10/28/23, 06:01, "Nnagain on behalf of Sebastian Moeller via Nnagain" <nnagain-
> > For example, people who use high quality virtual reality applications may want to buy a premium quality service, while users who mainly stream and browse the internet can buy a cheaper package. Our updated guidance clarifies that ISPs can offer premium packages, for example offering low latency, as long as they are sufficiently clear to customers about what they can expect from the services they buy.
> 
> Sigh. Wish more regulators knew about modern AQMs - we can have our cake and eat it too. The solution above seems to pre-suppose the need for QoS but this isn't a capacity problem. 
> 
> JL
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Nnagain mailing list
> Nnagain@lists.bufferbloat.net
> https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/nnagain
> _______________________________________________
> Nnagain mailing list
> Nnagain@lists.bufferbloat.net
> https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/nnagain

Re: [NNagain] [EXTERNAL] Re: NN review in the UK

[Mike Conlow]

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I'm not aware of any regularly occurring congestion issues in the UK, and
the consultation didn't suggest there are such issues.

I agree it comes across as legacy thinking. "Because packages offering
different quality of service would require some traffic prioritisation
where there is network congestion" kind of says it all.

This is speculation, but perhaps what the ISPs had in mind when discussing
this with Ofcom were newer AQMs, but it was translated into the
consultation this way? Regardless, to my reading, they asked for, and were
granted, a clarification that says they could offer one service with known
congestion issues and another service (which costs more to the end user)
that routes around the congestion.




On Mon, Oct 30, 2023 at 11:47 AM Livingood, Jason <
jason_livingood@comcast.com> wrote:

> Thx for the pointer to that section. Seems like some legacy thinking in
> that the view is the network rather than edge needs to do the heavy lifting
> on congestion control. But maybe with UK leased access there’s routine
> daily congestion (not enough capacity)?
>
>
>
> Looking at 6.28 I don’t see why an ISP could not charge more for a low
> latency service if that service was delivered at the same best effort QoS
> as the baseline service – which is possible with current AQMs. Not knowing
> as much about UK regs – maybe that is the issue? That it is unclear whether
> there can be any price/feature differentiation for broadband services even
> at the same level of best effort QoS?
>
>
>
> JL
>
>
>
> *From: *Mike Conlow <mconlow@cloudflare.com>
> *Date: *Monday, October 30, 2023 at 11:14
> *To: *Network Neutrality is back! Let´s make the technical aspects heard
> this time! <nnagain@lists.bufferbloat.net>
> *Cc: *Jason Livingood <jason_livingood@comcast.com>
> *Subject: *[EXTERNAL] Re: [NNagain] NN review in the UK
>
>
>
> +1. My understanding is the origins of this item in the NN review in the
> UK is that  ISPs requested it because of lack of clarity around whether
> "premium quality service" offerings violated NN rules. See page 63-64 here
> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/www.ofcom.org.uk/__data/assets/pdf_file/0028/245926/net-neutrality-review.pdf__;!!CQl3mcHX2A!ErUN6Nq2hd-S88MFqYrqwFhfFKN93rTuYy_MrrQMvwrAUBC8kQ1ZpHnPt6_zuqhoVQJ1uK6IxZPFbU5BkJwTwLYDDg$>.
> Screenshot below:
>
>
>
>
>
> On Mon, Oct 30, 2023 at 10:26 AM Livingood, Jason via Nnagain <
> nnagain@lists.bufferbloat.net> wrote:
>
> On 10/28/23, 06:01, "Nnagain on behalf of Sebastian Moeller via Nnagain"
> <nnagain-
> > For example, people who use high quality virtual reality applications
> may want to buy a premium quality service, while users who mainly stream
> and browse the internet can buy a cheaper package. Our updated guidance
> clarifies that ISPs can offer premium packages, for example offering low
> latency, as long as they are sufficiently clear to customers about what
> they can expect from the services they buy.
>
> Sigh. Wish more regulators knew about modern AQMs - we can have our cake
> and eat it too. The solution above seems to pre-suppose the need for QoS
> but this isn't a capacity problem.
>
> JL
>
> _______________________________________________
> Nnagain mailing list
> Nnagain@lists.bufferbloat.net
> https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/nnagain
> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/nnagain__;!!CQl3mcHX2A!ErUN6Nq2hd-S88MFqYrqwFhfFKN93rTuYy_MrrQMvwrAUBC8kQ1ZpHnPt6_zuqhoVQJ1uK6IxZPFbU5BkJwtGoJWVg$>
>
>

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Re: [NNagain] NN review in the UK

[Dave Taht]

This link is working now.

https://www.ofcom.org.uk/consultations-and-statements/category-1/net-neutrality-review

I had reached out to multiple folk I knew to fix it. It is hugely
ironic that we have run into multiple examples of both intentional and
unintentional censorship so far in our quest to find truths about
network neutrality all around the globe.

Annoyed, I set up a server in london, and mirrored the site myself via
"wget -m" - a command line utility that lets you make complete copies
of websites shipped as part of most operating systems. ... Back in the
day when the open internet meant you can copy a website and read it
offline, easily...

And then I shipped it all to my own laptop (where I can index it
myself), via another quite common tool, rsync. It took a while to do
that - started the rsync in america, and then finished it at a coffee
shop in vancouver... then I read the 5 pdfs and deleted the thing
because I needed the disk space.

Seeing so many newer folk having missed JPB's observation that the
internet is a "copying machine" ... if only more people would point
out to those folk these basic tools exist, that cannot be banned, and
are genuinely useful....

OK... so...

This now globally(? please test) accessible cloudflare instance for
ofcom is now throwing an error 429 (too many requests) so I no longer
have that ability to quickly mirror it that I had had only a few days
ago. Is this an improvement?

Anyway, I can finally get towards commenting on the actual text. But
not today. I would like to see various statements written about
network neutrality in 2005, 2010, 2015, because it seems to be the
definition in the ofcom docs has morphed a lot towards being...
"reasonable", whatever that means.



On Sat, Oct 28, 2023 at 3:01 AM Sebastian Moeller via Nnagain
<nnagain@lists.bufferbloat.net> wrote:
>
> Dear All,
>
> I have been pointed at Ofcom's statement on Net neutrality for October 2023:
>
> https://www.ofcom.org.uk/consultations-and-statements/category-1/net-neutrality-review
>
> Here is the meat of that statement sans the links at the end (the email will be clasified as spam if it contains too many links, I hope the one above does not trigger it yet):
>
> Statement published 26 October 2023
>
> Net neutrality supports the ‘open internet’, ensuring that users of the internet (both consumers and those making and distributing content) are in control of what they see and do online – not the broadband or mobile providers (otherwise known as internet service providers or ISPs). The net neutrality rules make sure that the traffic carried across broadband and mobile networks is treated equally and particular content or services are not prioritised or slowed down in a way that favours some over others. We want to make sure that as technology evolves and more of our lives move online, net neutrality continues to support innovation, investment and growth, by both content providers and ISPs.
>
> The current net neutrality rules are set out in legislation. Any changes to the rules in future would be a matter for Government and Parliament. Ofcom is responsible for monitoring and ensuring compliance with the rules and providing guidance on how ISPs should follow them. In 2021 we started a review of net neutrality.
>
> Our review has found that, in general, it has worked well and supported consumer choice as well as enabling content providers to deliver their content and services to consumers. However, there are specific areas where we provide more clarity in our guidance to enable ISPs to innovate and manage their networks more efficiently, to improve consumer outcome.
>
>         • ISPs can offer premium quality retail offers: Allowing ISPs to provide premium quality retail packages means they can better meet some consumers’ needs. For example, people who use high quality virtual reality applications may want to buy a premium quality service, while users who mainly stream and browse the internet can buy a cheaper package. Our updated guidance clarifies that ISPs can offer premium packages, for example offering low latency, as long as they are sufficiently clear to customers about what they can expect from the services they buy.
>         • ISPs can develop new ‘specialised services’: New 5G and full fibre networks offer the opportunity for ISPs to innovate and develop their services. Our updated guidance clarifies when they can provide ‘specialised services’ to deliver specific content and applications that need to be optimised, which might include real time communications, virtual reality and driverless vehicles.
>         • ISPs can use traffic management measures to manage their networks: Traffic management can be used by ISPs on their networks, so that a good quality of service is maintained for consumers. Our updated guidance clarifies when and how ISPs can use traffic management, including the different approaches they can take and how they can distinguish between different categories of traffic based on their technical requirements.
>         • Most zero-rating offers will be allowed: Zero-rating is where the data used by certain websites or apps is not counted towards a customer’s overall data allowance. Our updated guidance clarifies that we will generally allow these offers, while setting out the limited circumstances where we might have concerns.
>
>
> I note however, that when I try to access that page today I get a cloadflare error:
> Sorry, you have been blocked
> You are unable to access ofcom.squizedge.cloud
>
> Which might indicate that some parts of the network are not acting in good faith (or I was just unlucky with my current IP address)
>
> I also note (as Ofcom does itself) that since Brexit the UK is not bound to the EU's regulation 2015/2120 (see https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/de/TXT/?uri=CELEX%3A32015R2120 ).
>
> Regards
>         Sebastian
>
> _______________________________________________
> Nnagain mailing list
> Nnagain@lists.bufferbloat.net
> https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/nnagain



-- 
Oct 30: https://netdevconf.info/0x17/news/the-maestro-and-the-music-bof.html
Dave Täht CSO, LibreQos

Re: [NNagain] NN review in the UK

[Dave Taht]

I am still looking for the history of this morphing...

https://decoded.legal/blog/2023/10/ofcoms-new-guidance-on-open-internet--net-neutrality-including-zero-rating-and-traffic-management/

On Tue, Oct 31, 2023 at 9:33 AM Dave Taht <dave.taht@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> This link is working now.
>
> https://www.ofcom.org.uk/consultations-and-statements/category-1/net-neutrality-review
>
> I had reached out to multiple folk I knew to fix it. It is hugely
> ironic that we have run into multiple examples of both intentional and
> unintentional censorship so far in our quest to find truths about
> network neutrality all around the globe.
>
> Annoyed, I set up a server in london, and mirrored the site myself via
> "wget -m" - a command line utility that lets you make complete copies
> of websites shipped as part of most operating systems. ... Back in the
> day when the open internet meant you can copy a website and read it
> offline, easily...
>
> And then I shipped it all to my own laptop (where I can index it
> myself), via another quite common tool, rsync. It took a while to do
> that - started the rsync in america, and then finished it at a coffee
> shop in vancouver... then I read the 5 pdfs and deleted the thing
> because I needed the disk space.
>
> Seeing so many newer folk having missed JPB's observation that the
> internet is a "copying machine" ... if only more people would point
> out to those folk these basic tools exist, that cannot be banned, and
> are genuinely useful....
>
> OK... so...
>
> This now globally(? please test) accessible cloudflare instance for
> ofcom is now throwing an error 429 (too many requests) so I no longer
> have that ability to quickly mirror it that I had had only a few days
> ago. Is this an improvement?
>
> Anyway, I can finally get towards commenting on the actual text. But
> not today. I would like to see various statements written about
> network neutrality in 2005, 2010, 2015, because it seems to be the
> definition in the ofcom docs has morphed a lot towards being...
> "reasonable", whatever that means.
>
>
>
> On Sat, Oct 28, 2023 at 3:01 AM Sebastian Moeller via Nnagain
> <nnagain@lists.bufferbloat.net> wrote:
> >
> > Dear All,
> >
> > I have been pointed at Ofcom's statement on Net neutrality for October 2023:
> >
> > https://www.ofcom.org.uk/consultations-and-statements/category-1/net-neutrality-review
> >
> > Here is the meat of that statement sans the links at the end (the email will be clasified as spam if it contains too many links, I hope the one above does not trigger it yet):
> >
> > Statement published 26 October 2023
> >
> > Net neutrality supports the ‘open internet’, ensuring that users of the internet (both consumers and those making and distributing content) are in control of what they see and do online – not the broadband or mobile providers (otherwise known as internet service providers or ISPs). The net neutrality rules make sure that the traffic carried across broadband and mobile networks is treated equally and particular content or services are not prioritised or slowed down in a way that favours some over others. We want to make sure that as technology evolves and more of our lives move online, net neutrality continues to support innovation, investment and growth, by both content providers and ISPs.
> >
> > The current net neutrality rules are set out in legislation. Any changes to the rules in future would be a matter for Government and Parliament. Ofcom is responsible for monitoring and ensuring compliance with the rules and providing guidance on how ISPs should follow them. In 2021 we started a review of net neutrality.
> >
> > Our review has found that, in general, it has worked well and supported consumer choice as well as enabling content providers to deliver their content and services to consumers. However, there are specific areas where we provide more clarity in our guidance to enable ISPs to innovate and manage their networks more efficiently, to improve consumer outcome.
> >
> >         • ISPs can offer premium quality retail offers: Allowing ISPs to provide premium quality retail packages means they can better meet some consumers’ needs. For example, people who use high quality virtual reality applications may want to buy a premium quality service, while users who mainly stream and browse the internet can buy a cheaper package. Our updated guidance clarifies that ISPs can offer premium packages, for example offering low latency, as long as they are sufficiently clear to customers about what they can expect from the services they buy.
> >         • ISPs can develop new ‘specialised services’: New 5G and full fibre networks offer the opportunity for ISPs to innovate and develop their services. Our updated guidance clarifies when they can provide ‘specialised services’ to deliver specific content and applications that need to be optimised, which might include real time communications, virtual reality and driverless vehicles.
> >         • ISPs can use traffic management measures to manage their networks: Traffic management can be used by ISPs on their networks, so that a good quality of service is maintained for consumers. Our updated guidance clarifies when and how ISPs can use traffic management, including the different approaches they can take and how they can distinguish between different categories of traffic based on their technical requirements.
> >         • Most zero-rating offers will be allowed: Zero-rating is where the data used by certain websites or apps is not counted towards a customer’s overall data allowance. Our updated guidance clarifies that we will generally allow these offers, while setting out the limited circumstances where we might have concerns.
> >
> >
> > I note however, that when I try to access that page today I get a cloadflare error:
> > Sorry, you have been blocked
> > You are unable to access ofcom.squizedge.cloud
> >
> > Which might indicate that some parts of the network are not acting in good faith (or I was just unlucky with my current IP address)
> >
> > I also note (as Ofcom does itself) that since Brexit the UK is not bound to the EU's regulation 2015/2120 (see https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/de/TXT/?uri=CELEX%3A32015R2120 ).
> >
> > Regards
> >         Sebastian
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Nnagain mailing list
> > Nnagain@lists.bufferbloat.net
> > https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/nnagain
>
>
>
> --
> Oct 30: https://netdevconf.info/0x17/news/the-maestro-and-the-music-bof.html
> Dave Täht CSO, LibreQos



-- 
Oct 30: https://netdevconf.info/0x17/news/the-maestro-and-the-music-bof.html
Dave Täht CSO, LibreQos

Re: [NNagain] NN review in the UK

[Sebastian Moeller]

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Hi Dave,

This morphing is IMHO related to Brexit and an attempt to see how/if regulatory divergence from continental Europe can be converted into an economic advantage.  

The ofcom positions seem not really all that far from european regulations on the fact level, while on a rhetorical level it tries to look business friendly... (without changes in the UK law they hardly can do more).

My point is the European NN regulations were never all that strict and business stifling as some here seem to presume.




On 31 October 2023 18:37:16 CET, Dave Taht <dave.taht@gmail.com> wrote:
>I am still looking for the history of this morphing...
>
>https://decoded.legal/blog/2023/10/ofcoms-new-guidance-on-open-internet--net-neutrality-including-zero-rating-and-traffic-management/
>
>On Tue, Oct 31, 2023 at 9:33 AM Dave Taht <dave.taht@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> This link is working now.
>>
>> https://www.ofcom.org.uk/consultations-and-statements/category-1/net-neutrality-review
>>
>> I had reached out to multiple folk I knew to fix it. It is hugely
>> ironic that we have run into multiple examples of both intentional and
>> unintentional censorship so far in our quest to find truths about
>> network neutrality all around the globe.
>>
>> Annoyed, I set up a server in london, and mirrored the site myself via
>> "wget -m" - a command line utility that lets you make complete copies
>> of websites shipped as part of most operating systems. ... Back in the
>> day when the open internet meant you can copy a website and read it
>> offline, easily...
>>
>> And then I shipped it all to my own laptop (where I can index it
>> myself), via another quite common tool, rsync. It took a while to do
>> that - started the rsync in america, and then finished it at a coffee
>> shop in vancouver... then I read the 5 pdfs and deleted the thing
>> because I needed the disk space.
>>
>> Seeing so many newer folk having missed JPB's observation that the
>> internet is a "copying machine" ... if only more people would point
>> out to those folk these basic tools exist, that cannot be banned, and
>> are genuinely useful....
>>
>> OK... so...
>>
>> This now globally(? please test) accessible cloudflare instance for
>> ofcom is now throwing an error 429 (too many requests) so I no longer
>> have that ability to quickly mirror it that I had had only a few days
>> ago. Is this an improvement?
>>
>> Anyway, I can finally get towards commenting on the actual text. But
>> not today. I would like to see various statements written about
>> network neutrality in 2005, 2010, 2015, because it seems to be the
>> definition in the ofcom docs has morphed a lot towards being...
>> "reasonable", whatever that means.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sat, Oct 28, 2023 at 3:01 AM Sebastian Moeller via Nnagain
>> <nnagain@lists.bufferbloat.net> wrote:
>> >
>> > Dear All,
>> >
>> > I have been pointed at Ofcom's statement on Net neutrality for October 2023:
>> >
>> > https://www.ofcom.org.uk/consultations-and-statements/category-1/net-neutrality-review
>> >
>> > Here is the meat of that statement sans the links at the end (the email will be clasified as spam if it contains too many links, I hope the one above does not trigger it yet):
>> >
>> > Statement published 26 October 2023
>> >
>> > Net neutrality supports the ‘open internet’, ensuring that users of the internet (both consumers and those making and distributing content) are in control of what they see and do online – not the broadband or mobile providers (otherwise known as internet service providers or ISPs). The net neutrality rules make sure that the traffic carried across broadband and mobile networks is treated equally and particular content or services are not prioritised or slowed down in a way that favours some over others. We want to make sure that as technology evolves and more of our lives move online, net neutrality continues to support innovation, investment and growth, by both content providers and ISPs.
>> >
>> > The current net neutrality rules are set out in legislation. Any changes to the rules in future would be a matter for Government and Parliament. Ofcom is responsible for monitoring and ensuring compliance with the rules and providing guidance on how ISPs should follow them. In 2021 we started a review of net neutrality.
>> >
>> > Our review has found that, in general, it has worked well and supported consumer choice as well as enabling content providers to deliver their content and services to consumers. However, there are specific areas where we provide more clarity in our guidance to enable ISPs to innovate and manage their networks more efficiently, to improve consumer outcome.
>> >
>> >         • ISPs can offer premium quality retail offers: Allowing ISPs to provide premium quality retail packages means they can better meet some consumers’ needs. For example, people who use high quality virtual reality applications may want to buy a premium quality service, while users who mainly stream and browse the internet can buy a cheaper package. Our updated guidance clarifies that ISPs can offer premium packages, for example offering low latency, as long as they are sufficiently clear to customers about what they can expect from the services they buy.
>> >         • ISPs can develop new ‘specialised services’: New 5G and full fibre networks offer the opportunity for ISPs to innovate and develop their services. Our updated guidance clarifies when they can provide ‘specialised services’ to deliver specific content and applications that need to be optimised, which might include real time communications, virtual reality and driverless vehicles.
>> >         • ISPs can use traffic management measures to manage their networks: Traffic management can be used by ISPs on their networks, so that a good quality of service is maintained for consumers. Our updated guidance clarifies when and how ISPs can use traffic management, including the different approaches they can take and how they can distinguish between different categories of traffic based on their technical requirements.
>> >         • Most zero-rating offers will be allowed: Zero-rating is where the data used by certain websites or apps is not counted towards a customer’s overall data allowance. Our updated guidance clarifies that we will generally allow these offers, while setting out the limited circumstances where we might have concerns.
>> >
>> >
>> > I note however, that when I try to access that page today I get a cloadflare error:
>> > Sorry, you have been blocked
>> > You are unable to access ofcom.squizedge.cloud
>> >
>> > Which might indicate that some parts of the network are not acting in good faith (or I was just unlucky with my current IP address)
>> >
>> > I also note (as Ofcom does itself) that since Brexit the UK is not bound to the EU's regulation 2015/2120 (see https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/de/TXT/?uri=CELEX%3A32015R2120 ).
>> >
>> > Regards
>> >         Sebastian
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > Nnagain mailing list
>> > Nnagain@lists.bufferbloat.net
>> > https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/nnagain
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Oct 30: https://netdevconf.info/0x17/news/the-maestro-and-the-music-bof.html
>> Dave Täht CSO, LibreQos
>
>
>
>-- 
>Oct 30: https://netdevconf.info/0x17/news/the-maestro-and-the-music-bof.html
>Dave Täht CSO, LibreQos

-- 
Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.

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