From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from secmail.pch.net (secmail.pch.net [206.220.231.87]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by lists.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C86943B29D for ; Sat, 24 Feb 2024 16:30:07 -0500 (EST) Received: from secmail.pch.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by secmail.pch.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4Tj0Ql0nnTz4xJMw for ; Sat, 24 Feb 2024 13:30:07 -0800 (PST) Authentication-Results: secmail.pch.net (amavisd-new); dkim=pass reason="pass (just generated, assumed good)" header.d=pch.net DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=pch.net; h= x-mailer:to:references:message-id:date:in-reply-to:from:subject :mime-version:content-type; s=secmail_dkim; t=1708810206; x= 1711402207; bh=oRFgKsuQ489WHXdT1iP7aokegxqD4jej76IYOpqkicM=; b=p M4q6UERx9NEwXmus2k/uHG8BPySsbbGrkDWyse6n1siO4srvtDPsZnzvLzVXbsBx rHWhrfgsl2urEtW+CHi6qNrCQT6SnqzjomlDKSzqVjhP09zl6C6oCYblrOTjvt2L OE629cSPv/Eq20Av0kWYCTVOXm1FKeuYkMt6i/aDs9ZO5f3Y4eSXDMyKZdvSVr0+ 3Axh6pthmliSQhTFrh3IrKE+uJElIbaMb20WvxOUa1feSJONsJeAzUoTj76D0+1x DzH9xlHPgQWNVIBhrXdPdhZk8Zbn1xVmtc5F7pIhNMBNX9IRmb9xo2W5PQ5gQ0p4 sU0UsrymTiexCnbAL3b4g== X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at secmail.pch.net Received: from secmail.pch.net ([127.0.0.1]) by secmail.pch.net (secmail.pch.net [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10026) with ESMTP id L7pxUvkzI_nq for ; Sat, 24 Feb 2024 13:30:06 -0800 (PST) Received: from smtpclient.apple (itv-02 [69.166.14.6]) by secmail.pch.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 4Tj0Qj5vPdz4xVTY; Sat, 24 Feb 2024 13:30:05 -0800 (PST) Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="Apple-Mail=_CAC50524-CC97-4D37-AFA2-65A6AE6E777E"; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg=pgp-sha256 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 16.0 \(3774.500.171.1.1\)) From: Bill Woodcock In-Reply-To: Date: Sat, 24 Feb 2024 22:30:03 +0100 Cc: =?utf-8?Q?Network_Neutrality_is_back!_Let=C2=B4s_make_the_technical_as?= =?utf-8?Q?pects_heard_this_time!?= , Fearghas Mckay Message-Id: References: <2FE6AC99-172D-4948-8277-AD4316054E3D@gmail.com> To: Dave Taht X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3774.500.171.1.1) Subject: Re: [NNagain] The Whys of the Wichita IXP Project X-BeenThere: nnagain@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: =?utf-8?q?Network_Neutrality_is_back!_Let=C2=B4s_make_the_technical_aspects_heard_this_time!?= List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 24 Feb 2024 21:30:08 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_CAC50524-CC97-4D37-AFA2-65A6AE6E777E Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 > On Feb 24, 2024, at 15:03, Dave Taht wrote: > Isoc has 50k. ISOC takes $100m/year out of the community; I guess it=E2=80=99s nice = that they want to put $50k back. That doesn=E2=80=99t help anyone build = an IXP. Money isn=E2=80=99t the issue. > In my case you can safely assume I have 0 dollars in my pocket Not a problem, that=E2=80=99s basically where everybody trying to get = IXPs off the ground is. > but substantial expertise, going all the way back to the 90s. That helps, but again, siting and governance are always the big hurdles. = The technical part is like 5% at the end of the process. > I would enjoy creating and running an IXP, but there are some needed = upfront expenses to handle. Those are the easy part. The hard part is getting all the parties to = agree on site and governance. > Connected Nation identifies Fort Myers as an ideal location for an = IXP. That doesn=E2=80=99t count for much, since they=E2=80=99re not a = potential peer. What matters is whether there are networks ready to = exchange traffic there, and willing to do the work to make that happen. > Some traceroutes show traffic being backhauled to Naples (about 40 = miles away). Ok=E2=80=A6 are there any traceroutes that show interprovider traffic = being exchanged _closer_ than forty miles away? Forty miles roundtrip = is 430 microseconds. By itself, that=E2=80=99s not likely to be = sufficient motivation for ISPs that serve both locations to build a new = IXP, unless their circuits between the two are congested. =20 Are there ISPs that serve only Fort Meyers? Are there ISPs that serve = Fort Meyers, and are dependent on transit (i.e. they don=E2=80=99t peer = anywhere yet)? > There is a huge infrastructure of hospital buildings, rich folk, and = so on that makes much of the area seemingly ideal for fiber, but comcast = has a lock on most of it (and the aging populace is still quite fond of = broadcast tv). The internet in my building is not all that good, but = various quotes for putting fiber in here have all stalled out. (and most = residents just watch tv). MANY new buildings are under construction = however.... None of that, by itself, is going to help, because none of that is = related to the exchange. All that matters for the exchange is that you = have three ASes willing to exchange traffic in a location. If you do, = you can potentially get an IXP going. If you don=E2=80=99t, then = there=E2=80=99s no reason for an IXP, and building the shell of one = won=E2=80=99t convince anyone to come exchange traffic there. > So I figure step 1, in starting an IXP, is talk to the ISPs in the = area, and also the local government and potential anchors like hospitals = and schools? Only if the hospitals and schools have ASNs. Start with the ISPs. -Bill --Apple-Mail=_CAC50524-CC97-4D37-AFA2-65A6AE6E777E Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=signature.asc Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc Content-Description: Message signed with OpenPGP -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQIzBAEBCAAdFiEEm6XJ0FdpKWJHso4lb6RwSyiLf4cFAmXaX9sACgkQb6RwSyiL f4ciHg/+IRpk2eJozOHl0ro0v5Opfl05KQyD0wh1Sxfvvy+yIYerd0tNsZBcRLGi h20BPGsNz5rsKN1R3i00/qOEcb3XYbF9HZTyaXN6WhMsUoOJg62gzt8xMCGHA9s+ KIE1RK7egPmP4EQoT1+ie130pbbW4rIgeoQ0CflXQEzpJFGWm1gq7rw3rkgbgz8o NaQNReqJRLlDI0zkTIXTZqYQ9GZFeA8WkfmBGQEz4ZwqtauXoaEE0skt0TaQxHmb kV4LjkJvc4OkhMItSHkZigFBq2mrvfVBcnrG4GN2tutVbLC1x7uzD795vCPmymv5 5cTNBAdpa+jnJB7fDEmMjeS7gauOn7wUDFioWfjyEt/Cv2p8Poz4I4zfzWKl77zV MdRvwTo/3GJBoGDH6H5SHZQKss9qGtEqxzsw01RKPO1lwYDj5v++I+/FCdf4zvpQ As+QY9IIilQ/H+kzcFQbxbcpzsd5TKS1mk1bu4B42OrFH7OF+e9Fs1LA3Pau7N5Y j/SnL4hvi1BXcTKV7kgtDLjusK90vW/LMfp+2wl7o/CgkkifcNsixK0tBLtdQY6f JGav4/4OGtwdAAdvdx98N9MjYsORpxnvUbbiF6+twUR6ZeguCrXEvFICrU+NqLt0 ZZO1trILn2yV1zyPgJgQyGCNh3fXHWJWwps6zpkZ8uIO42fVRQ8= =FmCY -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Apple-Mail=_CAC50524-CC97-4D37-AFA2-65A6AE6E777E--