From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Authentication-Results: mail.toke.dk; dkim=pass header.d=gmx.de header.i=moeller0@gmx.de header.a=rsa-sha256 header.s=s31663417 header.b=bD948Owl; arc=none (Message is not ARC signed); dmarc=pass (Used From Domain Record) header.from=gmx.de policy.dmarc=quarantine Received: from mout.gmx.net (mout.gmx.net [212.227.17.21]) by mail.toke.dk (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 6FBE2197D66C; Mon, 02 Nov 2026 12:23:51 +0100 (CET) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmx.de; s=s31663417; t=1793618625; x=1794223425; i=moeller0@gmx.de; bh=X4jZR3KsKjQnN6Rj4pW16D5qNiXMc9OmMPpShiQzXe0=; h=X-UI-Sender-Class:Content-Type:Mime-Version:Subject:From: In-Reply-To:Date:Cc:Content-Transfer-Encoding:Message-Id: References:To:cc:content-transfer-encoding:content-type:date:from: message-id:mime-version:reply-to:subject:to; b=bD948Owl2LNrbIq3+l5OO1eUxRDdim7owmgCxjz3igE8vuV6jr4rFTVdwKlgbOXl D6TmU8qpU13J/erJPQFN/wkXs7F5S01NYzxRt6iU8Rl/VYxN3GHyiZhLu4mMLgJJP 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<409d88430a154642b1183accedfa97709d51d1e1586146c3a922af0a185d72f4@OS5P279MB0502.NORP279.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM> To: Michael Welzl X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3901.200.71.1.16) X-Provags-ID: V03:K1:GxlchIS1Ik5dolI9xQN7Rr6bmw5U33BCVB4y9ph6axKbpLfmnzK UD7edI/YMu++y3okqjakZn7b+zS4pvd6pHOSxe1t9NLaJUvAd6bquCSDS4619OQ0Rg8Czb+ gxQRIAXA75od9jOFbD7aDktbvJhEogXa/qrGHLtJ9zcHYCMhpJUYuc8CryoqwzpGT0sSKQw mxAhlLavco6d6TI/2fJMA== X-Spam-Flag: NO UI-OutboundReport: notjunk:1;M01:P0:SsEsF48s9AA=;jkswwfv7U9QAp023bIaEbekG8jz STxc/IVjKyaPwMrb1a8dzlOvozm9W9uAFOXunp2wfWlv/z59mvBARVL/5f8Fr8gn61V6MffQJ B003YCqLs9k6kKGNxBz6wZzLyKAvMfJ2jrmuQ357pU2+BtfB1JKZWXVMmQL1Y694Dqe3EB2kE laqZ8rsqokmlA3xycuU+qnup+zL7yJcFUADcDyU28gKVidMZtgl4Z76HGl3SC0MHmr6ESkGLy UsSF+QQlq3sGVTxzPdZ4Vz8WyQWrDrz/4UQn9TQ8LZ+DDmmpBAU3BYp6gzf8/rWYvadNRKQe/ pOwPDC0rE0rRlJXD5V4pQHkIR1+I34SWvBdlM5Wd4Dv2NUkJqX1ELe8X2RDd6SC14zSJEWflI R9Q7gQKbPMNiZbu3+Maf89CfZewdvrN7cDAJ202cRHIf2NGur96HDXJq9XGfTpx/w7exVbGaB 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FFECLSEVGHQJA7J6ZLOAMOWW73NX2Q3Z X-MailFrom: moeller0@gmx.de X-Mailman-Rule-Misses: dmarc-mitigation; no-senders; approved; loop; banned-address; emergency; member-moderation; nonmember-moderation; administrivia; implicit-dest; max-recipients; max-size; news-moderation; no-subject; digests; suspicious-header X-Mailman-Version: 3.3.10 Precedence: list Reply-To: =?utf-8?q?Network_Neutrality_is_back!_Let=C2=B4s_make_the_technical_aspects_heard_this_time!?= Subject: [NNagain] Re: [Bloat] The French have decided to destroy the Internet within their own country by taxing Gigabits (Dr. Peering) List-Id: =?utf-8?q?Network_Neutrality_is_back!_Let=C2=B4s_make_the_technical_aspects_heard_this_time!?= Archived-At: List-Archive: List-Help: List-Owner: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Hi Michael, > On Nov 2, 2026, at 08:44, Michael Welzl wrote: >=20 > The tax is 5 cents per Gigabyte. This is insane. Back of the envelop calculations for video streaming (assuming this to = be the one category driving most of the sustained capacity usage): common use seems to be HD streaming (say on average at 5 Mbps), with say = 2 hours per day, 7 days per week: (5 * 1000^2) * (60 * 60 * 2 * 30) / (8 * 1000^3) =3D 135 GB -> 135 * 0.055 =3D 7.425 Euro/month typical cost for midrange (ad-free) video streaming in france: 8-15 = Euro depending on the reference contract tier, the tax almost as large as the = total revenue, no way this could be priced-in without significant price = increases. The proposed tax indeed seems quite steep, however it is capped at 15% = of revenue in france or 2% of world-wide revenue=20 So that would get this more in like with a 15% tax... on revenue, still = nothing to sneeze at, but a far cry from the numbers one gets when = simply multiplying... Regards Sebastian P.S.: My take this is half-baked and will not make it through the = further legislative process in that form.=20 > It goes against how we agree to use the Internet. >=20 > English version: > "France has recently approved a highly controversial "Internet Traffic=20= > Tax" (or Gigabyte Tax) as part of the 2027 budget bill amendments. The=20= > new levy targets digital content providers based on the volume of data=20= > they transmit to French internet users, which is monitored by network=20= > operators and Internet Service Providers (ISPs) heavily utilizing=20 > Internet Exchange Points like France-IX." >=20 > Google AI summary: > "Key Metrics & Tax Rates > =E2=80=A2 =E2=82=AC0.055 per gigabyte charged to content providers. > =E2=80=A2 Capped at 15% of a provider's French revenue. > =E2=80=A2 Capped at 2% of a provider's global revenue. > =E2=80=A2 Measured directly by French network operators and ISPs." >=20 >=20 > On 2026-10-31 13:56, Frantisek Borsik wrote: >> Crossposting, because this garbage idea might "inspire" more = countries=20 >> and >> have a horrible impact also on bufferbloat everywhere. >>=20 >> *Original post by Dr. Peering:* >>=20 >> *"The French have decided to destroy the Internet within their own=20 >> country >> by taxing Gigabits. Here=E2=80=99s Octave Klaba's excellent analysis = [in=20 >> French, >> link below] showing just how insane the finance bill actually is. The=20= >> IXP >> taxation amount is, just for starters, ridiculous!"* >>=20 >> https://x.com/drpeering/status/2116468659392807 >> = >>=20 >> *Octave's post:* >>=20 >> = https://fr.linkedin.com/posts/octave-klaba-3a0b3632_jai-lu-lamendement-i-1= 358-au-plf-2027-activity-7522219045576888320-uqkw >>=20 >> *Copy+paste:* >>=20 >> J'ai lu l'amendement I-1358 au PLF 2027, adopt=C3=A9 ce vendredi =C3=A0= =20 >> l'Assembl=C3=A9e : >> une taxe de 0,055 =E2=82=AC par Go envoy=C3=A9 vers les abonn=C3=A9s = des FAI fran=C3=A7ais. Le >> chiffre est abstrait, alors comparons-le. Corrigez-moi si vous voyez=20= >> des >> erreurs. >>=20 >> Deux comparaisons et un cas concret : >>=20 >> 1. Le transit et le peering. Un port 100 Gbps co=C3=BBte environ 6 = 300 =E2=82=AC par >> mois chez un fournisseur de transit mondial. En interconnexion = directe=20 >> avec >> un FAI europ=C3=A9en, compter 3 =C3=A0 5 fois plus, soit 20 =C3=A0 30 = k=E2=82=AC par mois. Sur=20 >> ce >> port (a), la taxe atteint 1,02 M=E2=82=AC par mois, soit environ 3400 = % =C3=A0 16300=20 >> % >> du prix d'une interconnexion vers les FAI fran=C3=A7ais. On change = donc >> profond=C3=A9ment le mod=C3=A8le =C3=A9conomique de la bande passante = en France. >>=20 >> 2. Les hyperscalers sont critiqu=C3=A9s pour le prix de leur trafic = sortant,=20 >> qui >> va d'environ 0,08=E2=82=AC =C3=A0 0,045=E2=82=AC par Go selon le = volume. La taxe, 0,055 =E2=82=AC=20 >> par >> Go, repr=C3=A9sente 68 % =C3=A0 123 % de ce prix. On parle donc de = doubler, pour=20 >> le >> trafic vers la France, un prix d=C3=A9j=C3=A0 jug=C3=A9 trop =C3=A9lev=C3= =A9 ! >>=20 >> 3. Le cas d'OVHcloud. Nous envoyons de l'ordre de 500 Gbps au 95e >> percentile vers les FAI fran=C3=A7ais, soit environ 324 Gbps en = moyenne. Sur=20 >> un >> an, la taxe brute atteindrait 70 M=E2=82=AC. Le texte la plafonne =C3=A0= 15 % du CA >> r=C3=A9alis=C3=A9 en France ou =C3=A0 2 % du CA mondial, soit entre = environ 23 et 70=20 >> M=E2=82=AC >> par an que nous devrions collecter pour l'=C3=89tat, et donc = r=C3=A9percuter sur=20 >> nos >> clients. >>=20 >> Conclusions : >>=20 >> 1. Une taxe porte en g=C3=A9n=C3=A9ral sur une petite fraction de son = assiette. >> Celle-ci vaut plus de 3000 % du co=C3=BBt du transit, et environ 100 = % du=20 >> prix >> public des hyperscalers. Rappelez-vous la loi SREN, vot=C3=A9e pour=20= >> supprimer >> les frais de transfert qui emp=C3=AAchaient les clients de quitter un >> fournisseur cloud. Ici, on parle de doubler le prix du trafic sortant=20= >> vers >> les internautes fran=C3=A7ais, un prix d=C3=A9j=C3=A0 tr=C3=A8s = probl=C3=A9matique. >>=20 >> 2. Le garde-fou, un plafond calcul=C3=A9 sur le chiffre d'affaires, = est >> incoh=C3=A9rent. Ce chiffre d'affaires couvre des serveurs, du = stockage, des >> datacenters et des =C3=A9quipes sans rapport avec la bande passante. = C'est=20 >> comme >> cr=C3=A9er une taxe calcul=C3=A9e sur la consommation =C3=A9lectrique = des usines >> automobiles en France, plafonn=C3=A9e =C3=A0 15 % du chiffre = d'affaires des >> constructeurs. Quel rapport entre les deux ? >>=20 >> 3. Une taxe nationale de ce type frappe =C3=A0 coup s=C3=BBr les = entreprises=20 >> =C3=A9tablies >> en France, alors que leurs concurrents mondiaux sans pr=C3=A9sence en = France >> livrent le m=C3=AAme trafic aux m=C3=AAmes FAI fran=C3=A7ais sans = payer cette taxe en >> pratique. Cela cr=C3=A9e une distorsion de concurrence au d=C3=A9trimen= t des=20 >> acteurs >> nationaux et d=C3=A9classe les entreprises qui embauchent en France. = Une=20 >> taxe >> qui produit l'effet inverse serait une meilleure approche. >>=20 >> (a) Factur=C3=A9 au 95e percentile, ce port n'est pas plein en = permanence :=20 >> avec >> un profil journalier type (22 % vers 4 h, 90 % vers 21 h), il=20 >> transporte en >> moyenne 57 % de sa capacit=C3=A9, soit 18,6 millions de Go par mois. >>=20 >>=20 >> All the best, >>=20 >> Frank >> Frantisek (Frank) Borsik >>=20 >> In loving memory of Dave T=C3=A4ht: 1965-2025 >> https://libreqos.io/2025/04/01/in-loving-memory-of-dave/ >>=20 >>=20 >> https://www.linkedin.com/in/frantisekborsik >> Signal, Telegram, WhatsApp: +421919416714 <+421%20919%20416%20714> >> iMessage, mobile: +420775230885 <775%20230%20885> >> Skype: casioa5302ca >> frantisek.borsik@gmail.com >> _______________________________________________ >> Bloat mailing list -- bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net >> To unsubscribe send an email to bloat-leave@lists.bufferbloat.net > _______________________________________________ > Bloat mailing list -- bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net > To unsubscribe send an email to bloat-leave@lists.bufferbloat.net > _______________________________________________ > Bloat mailing list -- bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net > To unsubscribe send an email to bloat-leave@lists.bufferbloat.net