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Sun, 08 Oct 2023 12:01:42 +0200 Date: Sun, 08 Oct 2023 12:01:37 +0200 From: Sebastian Moeller To: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Network_Neutrality_is_back!_Let=B4s_mak?= =?ISO-8859-1?Q?e_the_technical_aspects_heard_this_time!?= , Dave Taht via Nnagain User-Agent: K-9 Mail for Android In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Provags-ID: V03:K1:xe1nCMxVle+RdCJ4zCdP5RKmQgeJkSub5lleQPNccmRTllEal9P MrU/adBk/P0l5SmxeGhRGSTDqLEps0VY4M37s8YQ9w12ulpz4L9Uxv7K5brOrmqWYVWB5QV iJa32GNLF2BIJDui8k2c1199QaJdgbPuVbSe65Ajo7SBsYaInMhIaEvc5FlwvvUlkisGZIh 0DFl64tCo3K6W44ocTmig== X-Spam-Flag: NO UI-OutboundReport: notjunk:1;M01:P0:Qldjh9s84Hw=;eNth4b4nTssxrG1gG5p4LUa0+yG 2OcGOCGGJU0dm/eylSR/sXrdBQY4vvQxyNkaoTh8Z17lv6Y0uoKofjhrr82CfEok3aURb7MxU ZDhw2uGplJznsqAnIVOAdKtZN2TiEihF4+lJMnq6g5doIn0u4sDSCzXAqV6qqLsi7rIVEKe8R 1ad0K4+WGXbB4IB/o51gdlCY9ipIS0f1OHho3jQG04HoeM5xlavK7TBH00jmWjRG0eM7E9ydR tfByXzOnf7p3M/6PFHhK0ykR93LTPr9YWTcCPxUgZ47bR16w5FzKyBouBgO36own/nYe50F+R yBOqg6OysdKTDtNEiyXboYFyeNA3niM9IXEVsGotrjXjeHcOH3GyH52QymGAbyWtszc+e2oFB jkYjolzYJR1df5HJyjKq+x/XUcTBmtkp0gUY1HJmttEOLfbmhVl8E1idlpFNqrupFb1/Dk9Ci PZVmVu0BlHuQq1T9gZw6/tOS/Tnz5cWtS4Bp6qbGZGrKw738w3unSKIpNAAQ99ZLk6i1Az88j uHYJw89fWVvVS6D0BG45GcOY23cmoR17pNnrrnnfeBw/28D2ZJj/BJ7zWFuG9+sHLLaBhfD4Z ZxrZRzXgMHUV72+GqhzDVhunVlbEXZaQim2Km9NC/iYUJAA67ngYiXvsD0Qr2+QMzQb3yBsvx rIPZYdoezYi78vpjuZEEXZu17D8inMfLsh5PndI6L3rqGnhWo7iklvL+TdKlVfC6uTv0SPkMb Vr9Vf4wHjSVBjw3NW1QZP0DqJH3tB+KqP9q9xRLLRtaw5YDGQes66UO3112YEaviuqO19N7e4 flOfCcM1P8nvceNHob+i37izQqHH9b1eldab7CZ2WJLtv1qdgSLT2iU0nBqMlpJitDqU8AGtE Z/YlTEizlwBps5Q9NSBCISBg/LVMiPo6QhlABRgkSgxjFV8y+l66DrLkgQt8rTHeFdiy7tQDz SUEPDeJhADw8iQEzmf3dyx3z5YY= Subject: Re: [NNagain] The non-death of DSL X-BeenThere: nnagain@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: =?utf-8?q?Network_Neutrality_is_back!_Let=C2=B4s_make_the_technical_aspects_heard_this_time!?= List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 08 Oct 2023 10:01:44 -0000 Hi Dave, On 8 October 2023 02:07:50 CEST, Dave Taht via Nnagain wrote: >I had found henning shulzerine's projections as to the death of POTs [SM] One argument was that POTs switches were getting hard to come by, but= I find this hard to believe that generally stated, hard to come by at pric= es competitive with IP gear might be closer to reality, and clearly the mor= e ISPs switched to VoIP the smaller the market for POTs gear and hence the = incentive to develop new generations of switches=2E=2E=2E >very compelling when he presented at ietf 86 back in 2013=2E I cannot >find the video, but there are all sorts of great charts and data here >worth reflecting about and updating=2E > >https://docs=2Egoogle=2Ecom/presentation/d/1TG0f18_ySAb4rJtC2SGeYPoY2oMdh= 0NS/edit?usp=3Dsharing&ouid=3D107942175615993706558&rtpof=3Dtrue&sd=3Dtrue > >Unfortunately he presently has a gig with the NTIA and probably cannot >participate here in the current contexts (although I like to think all >that we will end up discussing will impact multiple agencies, NIST, >and FEMA, for example) > >Still looking for better DSL data=2E=2E=2E=2E [SM] I found a site claiming ~80% coverage with DSL in the US but no infor= mation about actually usage or distribution into capacity tiers or technolo= gies=2E Making that reference not even worth posting=2E=2E=2E=2E > >On Sat, Oct 7, 2023 at 2:22=E2=80=AFPM Dave Taht wrote: >> >> I have a lot to unpack from this: >> >> https://docs=2Efcc=2Egov/public/attachments/DOC-397257A1=2Epdf >> >> the first two on my mind from 2005 are: "FCC adopted its first open >> internet policy" and "Competitiveness" As best as I recall, (and >> please correct me), this led essentially to the departure of all the >> 3rd party DSL providers from the field=2E I had found something >> referencing this interpretation that I cannot find right now, but I do >> clearly remember all the DSL services you could buy from in the early >> 00s, and how few you can buy from now=2E Obviously there are many othe= r >> possible root causes=2E >> >> DSL continued to get better and evolve, but it definately suffers from >> many reports of degraded copper quality, but does an estimate exist >> for how much working DSL is left? >> >> Q0) How much DSL is in the EU? >> Q1) How much DSL is left in the USA? >> Q2) What form is it? (VDSL, etc?) >> >> Did competition in DSL vanish because of or not of an FCC related order= ? >> >> -- >> Oct 30: https://netdevconf=2Einfo/0x17/news/the-maestro-and-the-music-b= of=2Ehtml >> Dave T=C3=A4ht CSO, LibreQos > > > >--=20 >Oct 30: https://netdevconf=2Einfo/0x17/news/the-maestro-and-the-music-bof= =2Ehtml >Dave T=C3=A4ht CSO, LibreQos >_______________________________________________ >Nnagain mailing list >Nnagain@lists=2Ebufferbloat=2Enet >https://lists=2Ebufferbloat=2Enet/listinfo/nnagain --=20 Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail=2E Please excuse my brevity=2E