Re: [NNagain] [Starlink] FCC Upholds Denial of Starlink's RDOF Application

["Dick Roy" <dickroy@alum.mit.edu>]

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It might be worth pondering the following questions:  Why is professional football (in the US) dominated by males when half the population is female???  Why aren’t women demanding their fair representation on the field???

 

Hmmmm ….

 

:-) 

 

-----Original Message-----
From: Starlink [mailto:starlink-bounces@lists.bufferbloat.net] On Behalf Of rjmcmahon via Starlink
Sent: Saturday, December 16, 2023 9:31 AM
To: David Lang
Cc: starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net; Network Neutrality is back! Let´s make the technical aspects heard this time!
Subject: Re: [Starlink] [NNagain] FCC Upholds Denial of Starlink's RDOF Application

 

The president who ran Harvey Mudd College had to fix their computer 

science problem of a 90% to 10% male to female ratio. She was asked, 

"What's the goal?" She responded, "It should reflect to population so 

50/50." The others said, "Be realistic."

 

She was and she got it to 50/50 where it should be in every technology 

group.Though we have more improvements to be done.

 

https://hechingerreport.org/an-unnoticed-result-of-the-decline-of-men-in-college-its-harder-for-women-to-get-in/

 

There is now way to fix a problem without getting passed the denial 

phase. This list population, and the LEO worshiping of Musk displayed 

here by its constituents, are very much white male things. Not noticing 

this & staying silent on this shows a lack of integrity by the group. My 

judgment.

 

Bob

> to be very clear, I am in no way saying that anyone's (let alone

> saying women's) views are not desired. I think a diversity of views if

> extremely valuable.

> 

> I just get my back up when people say things like 'there need to more

> X in charge' (for any value of X that refers to a characteristic that

> someone is born with)

> 

> David Lang

> 

> On Fri, 15 Dec 2023, Dave Taht wrote:

> 

>> This is principally a male dominated list, and I in general assume

>> that the public debate over fiber, bandwidth, etc, etc skews heavily

>> male also.

>> 

>> It is a very good set of questions to ask about how the internet

>> should be structured to best meet the needs of both sexes, and how

>> that has changed over time, and may change in the future! I hesitate

>> to even make one overbroad conclusion! Permanent connectivity and

>> messaging seems more important to women than men, and a phone more

>> important than fiber. Security (tracking and/or protecting kids),

>> also. It is something I would rather research than draw premature

>> conclusions from.

>> 

>> https://www.google.com/search?q=how+do+men+and+women+use+the+internet+differently

>> 

>> On Fri, Dec 15, 2023 at 1:42 PM David Lang via Starlink

>> <starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net> wrote:

>>> 

>>> why do you think telehealth won't work over LEO services?

>>> 

>>> I've used it personally.

>>> 

>>> Even if women use telehealth more than men, that doesn't say that 

>>> women have any

>>> particular advantage in moving the bits around that make telehealth 

>>> possible.

>>> 

>>> David Lang

>>> 

>>> On Fri, 15 Dec 2023, rjmcmahon wrote:

>>> 

>>>> Women are the primary users and providers of telehealth services. 

>>>> They are

>>>> using broadband to care for our population. They also run most of 

>>>> the

>>>> addiction services across our country, whatever the addiction may 

>>>> be. So

>>>> gender actually matters. Ask them as providers. Telehealth doesn't 

>>>> work over

>>>> LEO (nor does it matter much for men on boats.) Same for distance 

>>>> learning.

>>>> 

>>>> https://www.healthcaredive.com/news/women-more-likely-telehealth-patients-providers-covid-19-pandemic/608153/

>>>> 

>>>> As Washington considers which virtual care flexibilities should 

>>>> remain in

>>>> place post-COVID-19, experts are flagging that paring back 

>>>> telehealth access

>>>> and affordability will disproportionately affect women, even as a 

>>>> growing

>>>> share of startups emerge to address women’s unique health needs.

>>>> 

>>>> While women are more likely than men to visit doctors and consume 

>>>> healthcare

>>>> services in general, telehealth seems to be uniquely attractive to 

>>>> women.

>>>> 

>>>> Bob

>>>>> who exactly do you think is calling for there to be no Internet

>>>>> access? and what in the world does the sex of individuals have to 

>>>>> do

>>>>> with shipping bits around?

>>>>> 

>>>>> Starlink (and hopefully it's future competitors) provides a way to 

>>>>> get

>>>>> Internet service to everyone without having to run fiber to every

>>>>> house.

>>>>> 

>>>>> As for the parallels with rural electrification, if that problem 

>>>>> were

>>>>> to be faced today, would the right answer be massive public 

>>>>> agencies

>>>>> to build and run miles of wire from massive central power plants? 

>>>>> or

>>>>> would the right answer be solar + batteries in individual houses 

>>>>> for

>>>>> the most rural folks, with small modular reactors to power the 

>>>>> larger

>>>>> population areas?

>>>>> 

>>>>> Just because there was only one way to achieve a goal in the past

>>>>> doesn't mean that approach is the best thing to do today.

>>>>> 

>>>>> David Lang

>>>>> 

>>>>> On Fri, 15 Dec 2023, rjmcmahon wrote:

>>>>> 

>>>>>> Hi All,

>>>>>> 

>>>>>> We're trying to modernize America. LBJ helped do it for 

>>>>>> electricity

>>>>>> decades ago. It's our turn to step up to the plate. Tele-health 

>>>>>> and

>>>>>> distance learning requires us to do so. There is so much to 

>>>>>> follow.

>>>>>> 

>>>>>> A reminder what many women went through before LBJ showed up. I'm

>>>>>> skeptical a patriarchy under Musk is even close to capable. We 

>>>>>> probably

>>>>>> need a woman to lead us, or at least motivate us to do our best 

>>>>>> work for

>>>>>> our country and to be an example to the world.

>>>>>> 

>>>>>> A Hill Country farm wife had to do her chores even if she was ill 

>>>>>> – no

>>>>>> matter how ill. Because Hill Country women were too poor to afford 

>>>>>> proper

>>>>>> medical care they often suffered perineal tears in childbirth. 

>>>>>> During the

>>>>>> 1930s, the federal government sent physicians to examine a 

>>>>>> sampling of

>>>>>> Hill Country women. The doctors found that, out of 275 women, 158 

>>>>>> had

>>>>>> perineal tears. Many of them, the team of gynecologists reported, 

>>>>>> were

>>>>>> third-degree tears, “tears so bad that it is difficult to see how 

>>>>>> they

>>>>>> stand on their feet.” But they were standing on their feet, and 

>>>>>> doing all

>>>>>> the chores that Hill Country wives had always done – hauling the 

>>>>>> water,

>>>>>> hauling the wood, canning, washing, ironing, helping with the 

>>>>>> shearing,

>>>>>> the plowing and the picking.

>>>>>> 

>>>>>> Because there was no electricity.

>>>>>> 

>>>>>> Bob

>>>>>>> On Fri, 15 Dec 2023, Sebastian Moeller via Starlink wrote:

>>>>>>> 

>>>>>>>> Hi Frantisek,

>>>>>>>> 

>>>>>>>> 

>>>>>>>>> On Dec 15, 2023, at 13:46, Frantisek Borsik via Nnagain

>>>>>>>>> <nnagain@lists.bufferbloat.net> wrote:

>>>>>>>>> 

>>>>>>>>> Thus, technically speaking, one would like the advantages of 

>>>>>>>>> satcom

>>>>>>>>> such as starlink, to be at least 5gbit/s in 10 years time, to 

>>>>>>>>> overcome

>>>>>>>>> the 'tangled fiber' problem.

>>>>>>>>> 

>>>>>>>>> No, not really. Starlink was about to address the issue of 

>>>>>>>>> digital

>>>>>>>>> divide -

>>>>>>>> 

>>>>>>>>   I beg to differ. Starlink is a commercial enterprise with the 

>>>>>>>> goal to

>>>>>>>> make a profit by offering (usable) internet access essentially

>>>>>>>> everywhere; it is not as far as I can tell an attempt at 

>>>>>>>> specifically

>>>>>>>> reducing the digital divide (were often an important factor is 

>>>>>>>> not

>>>>>>>> necessarily location but financial means).

>>>>>>> 

>>>>>>> Every Inernet company " commercial enterprise with the goal to 

>>>>>>> make a

>>>>>>> profit by offering (usable) internet" don't dismiss a company 

>>>>>>> because

>>>>>>> of that. Starlink (and the other Satellite ISPs) all exist to 

>>>>>>> service

>>>>>>> people who can't use traditional wired infrastructure

>>>>>>> 

>>>>>>>> 

>>>>>>>>> delivering internet to those 640k locations, where there is 

>>>>>>>>> literally

>>>>>>>>> none today. Fiber will NEVER get there. And it will get there, 

>>>>>>>>> it will

>>>>>>>>> be like 10 years down the road.

>>>>>>>> 

>>>>>>>>   This is IHO the wrong approach to take. The goal needs to be a

>>>>>>>> universal FTTH access network (with the exception of extreme 

>>>>>>>> locations,

>>>>>>>> no need to pull fiber up to the highest Bivouac shelter on Mt. 

>>>>>>>> Whitney).

>>>>>>>> And f that takes a decade or two, so be it, this is 

>>>>>>>> infrastructure that

>>>>>>>> will keep on helping for many decades once rolled-out. However 

>>>>>>>> given

>>>>>>>> that time frame one should consider work-arounds for the interim 

>>>>>>>> period.

>>>>>>>> I would have naively thought starlink would qualify for that 

>>>>>>>> from a

>>>>>>>> technical perspective, but then the FCC documents actually 

>>>>>>>> discussion

>>>>>>>> requirements and how they were or were not met/promised by 

>>>>>>>> starlink was

>>>>>>>> mostly redacted.

>>>>>>> 

>>>>>>> what do you consider 'extreme locations'? how long a run between

>>>>>>> houses is 'too far'?

>>>>>>> 

>>>>>>> we've seen the failure of commercial fiber monopolies in cities 

>>>>>>> with

>>>>>>> housing density of several houses per acre (and even where there 

>>>>>>> are

>>>>>>> apartment complexes there as well) because it's not profitable 

>>>>>>> enough.

>>>>>>> When you get into areas where it's 'how many acres per house' the 

>>>>>>> cost

>>>>>>> of running FTTH gets very high. I don't think this is the 

>>>>>>> majority of

>>>>>>> the population of the US any longer (but I don't know for sure), 

>>>>>>> but

>>>>>>> it's very clearly the majority of the area of the US. And once 

>>>>>>> you get

>>>>>>> out of the major metro areas, even getting fiber to every town or

>>>>>>> village becomes a major undertaking.

>>>>>>> 

>>>>>>> Is running fiber 30 miles to support a village of 700 people an

>>>>>>> 'extreme location'? let me introduce you to Vermontville MI

>>>>>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vermontville,_Michigan which is 

>>>>>>> less

>>>>>>> than an hours drive from the state capitol.

>>>>>>> 

>>>>>>> David Lang

>>>>>>> _______________________________________________

>>>>>>> Nnagain mailing list

>>>>>>> Nnagain@lists.bufferbloat.net

>>>>>>> https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/nnagain

>>>>>> 

>>>> _______________________________________________

>>> Starlink mailing list

>>> Starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net

>>> https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/starlink

>> 

>> 

>> 

>> 

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