[NNagain] Re: Net Neutrality - a battle in Europe: Deutsche Telekom case shines light on 'two-speed' internet

["Livingood, Jason" <Jason_Livingood@comcast.com>]

I’m reserving judgement on this one. It seems like they are sort of outsourcing management of the peer edge but using a 3rd party SDN to dynamically add peering capacity - rather than having to do physical cross connects as needed. Of course someone​ still has to do that so this just seems to outsource that and adds some level of automation to the management of peer edge capacity. Guess we shall see - but I do think the current peer management approach the industry tends to use could benefit from more automation and less reliance on individual manual work.

JL

From: Frantisek Borsik via Nnagain <nnagain@lists.bufferbloat.net>
Date: Friday, November 7, 2025 at 06:57
To: Network Neutrality is back! Let´s make the technical aspects heard this time! <nnagain@lists.bufferbloat.net>
Cc: Vint Cerf <vint@google.com>, Sebastian Moeller <moeller0@gmx.de>, Frantisek Borsik <frantisek.borsik@gmail.com>
Subject: [NNagain] Re: Net Neutrality - a battle in Europe: Deutsche Telekom case shines light on 'two-speed' internet

More to the fire:

"Is Vodafone brilliant? Or is it daft? What do you think? Apparently
Vodafone will stop all public and private hashtag#peering in Europe. The
press release of Vodafone and the news articles in Germany aren't fully
clear on how this will work."

https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.linkedin.com/posts/rudolfvanderberg_vodafone-selects-interlink-to-enhance-interconnection-activity-7392520708695883776-yjPQ/__;!!CQl3mcHX2A!DXD3xcdspquGDgxhcy60RA4Nqd8QM27ckOsWIgVLbzA4aORwWmdflqN3rMbfy8yucyjXnEsJ9T7xeoYaMcHQtH3rTDg7Cdna$

All the best,

Frank

Frantisek (Frank) Borsik


*In loving memory of Dave Täht: *1965-2025

https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://libreqos.io/2025/04/01/in-loving-memory-of-dave/__;!!CQl3mcHX2A!DXD3xcdspquGDgxhcy60RA4Nqd8QM27ckOsWIgVLbzA4aORwWmdflqN3rMbfy8yucyjXnEsJ9T7xeoYaMcHQtH3rTE0hCua5$


https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.linkedin.com/in/frantisekborsik__;!!CQl3mcHX2A!DXD3xcdspquGDgxhcy60RA4Nqd8QM27ckOsWIgVLbzA4aORwWmdflqN3rMbfy8yucyjXnEsJ9T7xeoYaMcHQtH3rTEoirq21$

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frantisek.borsik@gmail.com


On Fri, Nov 7, 2025 at 12:47 PM Frantisek Borsik <frantisek.borsik@gmail.com>
wrote:

> To add more data to the case, here is South Korea disaster, covered
> by, Kyung Sin (KS) Park: https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.opennetkorea.org/en/wp/7292__;!!CQl3mcHX2A!DXD3xcdspquGDgxhcy60RA4Nqd8QM27ckOsWIgVLbzA4aORwWmdflqN3rMbfy8yucyjXnEsJ9T7xeoYaMcHQtH3rTFhSLNg-$
>
> "If you are interested in the competition analysis of the Korea's ISP
> market and the impact of the sender pay rule (or equivalently "network
> usage fee" regime), and all the data and graphs, please review this annex
> to a Brazilian study of the similar issue. It looks as if the jointly
> written study must have had an impact in the local discourse on the issue."
>
> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.opennetkorea.org/en/wp/7232__;!!CQl3mcHX2A!DXD3xcdspquGDgxhcy60RA4Nqd8QM27ckOsWIgVLbzA4aORwWmdflqN3rMbfy8yucyjXnEsJ9T7xeoYaMcHQtH3rTJY0TblF$
>
> All the best,
>
> Frank
>
> Frantisek (Frank) Borsik
>
>
> *In loving memory of Dave Täht: *1965-2025
>
> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://libreqos.io/2025/04/01/in-loving-memory-of-dave/__;!!CQl3mcHX2A!DXD3xcdspquGDgxhcy60RA4Nqd8QM27ckOsWIgVLbzA4aORwWmdflqN3rMbfy8yucyjXnEsJ9T7xeoYaMcHQtH3rTE0hCua5$
>
>
> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.linkedin.com/in/frantisekborsik__;!!CQl3mcHX2A!DXD3xcdspquGDgxhcy60RA4Nqd8QM27ckOsWIgVLbzA4aORwWmdflqN3rMbfy8yucyjXnEsJ9T7xeoYaMcHQtH3rTEoirq21$
>
> Signal, Telegram, WhatsApp: +421919416714
>
> iMessage, mobile: +420775230885
>
> Skype: casioa5302ca
>
> frantisek.borsik@gmail.com
>
>
> On Fri, Nov 7, 2025 at 12:25 PM Sebastian Moeller via Nnagain <
> nnagain@lists.bufferbloat.net> wrote:
>
>> Hi Vint,
>>
>>
>> > On 7. Nov 2025, at 12:00, Vint Cerf via Nnagain <
>> nnagain@lists.bufferbloat.net> wrote:
>> >
>> > Frantisek,
>> > how is a "fast lane" different from paying more for higher bandwidth?
>>
>> Oh, the issue here is that Telekom sells data transport services to/from
>> the whole internet to its end customers with a given maximal capacity. So
>> customers can (and do) expect that the whole internet is accessible at that
>> rate at least as far this is within the control of Telekom. But Telekom is
>> notorious for not expanding its cost-neutral peering connections to the
>> other T1 ISPs and rather let them run "hotter" than traditionally done, so
>> that during primetime all connections reaching telekom eyeballs suffer from
>> increased delay, jitter and packet loss and consequently lower throughput.
>> The reason is that Telekom rather wants content providers to buy its rather
>> expensive "transit" or "peering" products instead of using their normal
>> transit provider.
>>
>>
>> > The
>> > latter is pretty common and even understandable.
>>
>> Yes, nobody considers that a violation of NN principles as this is an
>> orthogonal dimension and the consequences are clearly revealed to the end
>> user.
>>
>> > In the US, neutrality
>> > meant everyone has the same access rules which includes being able to
>> pay
>> > more for higher speed. The users got to determine what speed they
>> wanted,
>> > not the provider. Nor could the provider (ISP) choose arbitrarily which
>> > services the user would get at what speed. The application providers,
>> > similarly, get to choose what speed and cost they can provide service.
>> In
>> > all cases, the ISP does not get to dictate the speeds they offer to
>> users
>> > and application providers. The rule works more or less like common
>> > carriage. You pay for what you get, the carrier has to offer all
>> services
>> > to all parties on the same terms.
>>
>> All fine... what Telekom has discovered is, that it can not selectively
>> throttle say all traffic to/from content provider A* without running afoul
>> of NN rules, but it can throttle ALL traffic running via specific peerings
>> indiscriminately by running that peering link too hot. The issue is IMHO
>> only partially Telekom's late stage capitalism play trying to extort money,
>> it is more the fact that our regulator (and all european regulators for
>> that matter) decided to turn a blind eye towards this "working-around" the
>> NN-regulations.
>> Telekom has capable PR wizards on the case that always frame this as
>> trying to get the big content providers to should their "fair share" iof
>> the cost of the network build out, ignoring that it already charges its
>> customers already for that purpose and manages to make a profit already.
>>
>> Regards
>>         Sebastian
>>
>> *) With the likely intent of selling special access to A to allow it to
>> avoid the throttling.
>>
>> >
>> > v
>> >
>> >
>> > On Fri, Nov 7, 2025 at 5:13 AM Frantisek Borsik via Nnagain <
>> > nnagain@lists.bufferbloat.net> wrote:
>> >
>> >> DT is at it again:
>> >>
>> >> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://euobserver.com/digital/ar5da666d9__;!!CQl3mcHX2A!DXD3xcdspquGDgxhcy60RA4Nqd8QM27ckOsWIgVLbzA4aORwWmdflqN3rMbfy8yucyjXnEsJ9T7xeoYaMcHQtH3rTNh7cXKI$
>> >>
>> >> "Earlier this year, Austrian and German NGOs filed a complaint with the
>> >> German Federal Network Agency against Deutsche Telekom, alleging that
>> the
>> >> internet service provider (ISP) is creating paid fast lanes to access
>> >> websites.
>> >>
>> >> On Wednesday (5 November), the groups held a talk to outline their
>> >> complaint and why it's important for Europe's net neutrality.
>> >>
>> >> The NGOs consists of Epicenter.works, the Society for Civil Rights, the
>> >> Federation of German Consumer Organisations, plus Stanford professor
>> >> Barbara van Schewick, arguing that Deutsche Telekom is creating a
>> >> two-tiered internet through having web hosts pay extra for Telekom’s
>> >> users."
>> >>
>> >> All the best,
>> >>
>> >> Frank
>> >>
>> >> Frantisek (Frank) Borsik
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> *In loving memory of Dave Täht: *1965-2025
>> >>
>> >> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://libreqos.io/2025/04/01/in-loving-memory-of-dave/__;!!CQl3mcHX2A!DXD3xcdspquGDgxhcy60RA4Nqd8QM27ckOsWIgVLbzA4aORwWmdflqN3rMbfy8yucyjXnEsJ9T7xeoYaMcHQtH3rTE0hCua5$
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.linkedin.com/in/frantisekborsik__;!!CQl3mcHX2A!DXD3xcdspquGDgxhcy60RA4Nqd8QM27ckOsWIgVLbzA4aORwWmdflqN3rMbfy8yucyjXnEsJ9T7xeoYaMcHQtH3rTEoirq21$
>> >>
>> >> Signal, Telegram, WhatsApp: +421919416714 <+421%20919%20416%20714>
>> >>
>> >> iMessage, mobile: +420775230885 <+420%20775%20230%20885>
>> >>
>> >> Skype: casioa5302ca
>> >>
>> >> frantisek.borsik@gmail.com
>> >> _______________________________________________
>> >> Nnagain mailing list -- nnagain@lists.bufferbloat.net
>> >> To unsubscribe send an email to nnagain-leave@lists.bufferbloat.net
>> >>
>> >
>> >
>> > --
>> > Please send any postal/overnight deliveries to:
>> > Vint Cerf
>> > Google, LLC
>> > 1900 Reston Metro Plaza, 16th Floor
>> > Reston, VA 20190
>> > +1 (571) 213 1346
>> >
>> >
>> > until further notice
>> > _______________________________________________
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>>
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