From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from silver.cherry.relay.mailchannels.net (silver.cherry.relay.mailchannels.net [23.83.223.166]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by lists.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 945AF3B29D for ; Sat, 1 Jun 2024 22:35:41 -0400 (EDT) X-Sender-Id: hostingeremail|x-authuser|dhc@dcrocker.net Received: from relay.mailchannels.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by relay.mailchannels.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 944A71411A7 for ; Sun, 2 Jun 2024 02:35:40 +0000 (UTC) Received: from fr-int-smtpout4.hostinger.io (unknown [127.0.0.6]) (Authenticated sender: hostingeremail) by relay.mailchannels.net (Postfix) with ESMTPA id B6F1214199E for ; Sun, 2 Jun 2024 02:35:39 +0000 (UTC) ARC-Seal: i=1; s=arc-2022; d=mailchannels.net; t=1717295740; a=rsa-sha256; cv=none; b=zmLPRTu2RK2797KxVFM3o/NglTBJ0yv+RGzXI7iOIbnA8GFv+uANWviJT9dCf0WKmZbpx9 MrZj0QIPdMyNz7wo6rb0zKmH/wYyKXkpIAPzkQLBk1VqIiG3Nn8gjca87APYZoBfXb2GPi mI/n4Y1uwnYy27WAebuhj64KiiLoLS0tmO7SM43/A1+uxRmvlOPXGzs98O84m+LCxwMoRa UVrnA/lbnpJe108r2S2Tr6XjRaJ6QcB4Hr2EycmWtdfabBW3MTIZx/nKa8km4gtrfE8JY1 wuH1Hj5T6VoNMcwfCaGahq6JYusFo8/dSfCELXovgzWtU4KqQHr9uODhgLYbdw== ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=mailchannels.net; s=arc-2022; t=1717295740; h=from:from:reply-to:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date: message-id:message-id:to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version: content-type:content-type: content-transfer-encoding:content-transfer-encoding: in-reply-to:in-reply-to:references:references:dkim-signature; bh=qaAo/MztL5ibV95RWm9YcfKrMHcnHlWfzjwF/YTa9hs=; b=TjGlYh449u62He98HzPcu7F7o49smMfAnBhPjVMaRH/Hp+2RbEVJm4nNCIeEhxbrLLNI3Q MNXn49yp7nyfZU2H2A6KVGDv/b7aQUXzZPKqr331OcETCB3AwaWWaaagSvOd/MMbSIWOdW 6zDmM9WoQQdmEgwEA0DXfrxvkwNLUHdxif7Wq/m7u3QoxuITvecoyGecygXQYB0QSDTxlp bR9PByW1G6wuI1tPsl9zkc9aif5rZ7G6d9nkgvmDcnaZ9BCXKtHa1BeRq9KldEy3nJeb2i /eQJNxYNH0udDZMhSuy1BDCg/n1MJig5hejWaorppeMYQEFplOtFOK5YzaUieQ== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; rspamd-7f76976655-xxlt7; auth=pass smtp.auth=hostingeremail smtp.mailfrom=dhc@dcrocker.net X-Sender-Id: hostingeremail|x-authuser|dhc@dcrocker.net X-MC-Relay: Neutral X-MailChannels-SenderId: hostingeremail|x-authuser|dhc@dcrocker.net X-MailChannels-Auth-Id: hostingeremail X-Madly-Harbor: 225d019a1810e6bb_1717295740394_112787838 X-MC-Loop-Signature: 1717295740394:2207071386 X-MC-Ingress-Time: 1717295740394 Received: from fr-int-smtpout4.hostinger.io (fr-int-smtpout4.hostinger.io [89.116.146.83]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) by 100.104.147.249 (trex/6.9.2); Sun, 02 Jun 2024 02:35:40 +0000 Message-ID: DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=dcrocker.net; s=hostingermail-a; t=1717295738; h=from:from:reply-to:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date: message-id:message-id:to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version: content-type:content-type: content-transfer-encoding:content-transfer-encoding: in-reply-to:in-reply-to:references:references; bh=qaAo/MztL5ibV95RWm9YcfKrMHcnHlWfzjwF/YTa9hs=; b=dj9gfKm31YUS4YIddxzeH7XdlcO8v9pmHrGwsPjm1C2umkojlP5Hkvzmh89fJwRN0oiIDF 9YmgEaQpfB7MWBv9PXzTCRvA+2YtJjIpY99mthyzIkcD+D2vszHQWHad2AwVBq4RYSlitn Kae4/Usc6GhPGQ0NsgeaN+brrq3l1RIagQZcS8djQ6JtSw8FXX+kxnnjH7nAefX4AJHTX5 tS0mKDHPEYrDXFV0n6B9NRA4n82CCM9ZTe/QAx6C8ZIDjJHD5UhS/TNNgZyZ/oRlVo/jIm aWwNabN1kXge5xI3+SzH5Y7gBGPe87RSpIt2k+4PfyeZ2IEFZ6KKax9pVAUZJA== Date: Sat, 1 Jun 2024 19:35:36 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird Content-Language: en-US To: Robert McMahon References: <26794f65-08a1-403e-a69d-530c6e481cb2@dcrocker.net> From: Dave Crocker Cc: =?UTF-8?Q?Network_Neutrality_is_back!_Let=C2=B4s_make_the_technical_aspe?= =?UTF-8?Q?cts_heard_this_time!?= Reply-To: dcrocker@bbiw.net Organization: Brandenburg InternetWorking In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-CM-Analysis: v=2.4 cv=fan/yFQF c=1 sm=1 tr=0 ts=665bda7a a=f+oD5hTMMv8HtluUlp4ziA==:117 a=f+oD5hTMMv8HtluUlp4ziA==:17 a=IkcTkHD0fZMA:10 a=k7Ga1wGzAAAA:8 a=Z1qdrN5jHObZX60jbYwA:9 a=3ZKOabzyN94A:10 a=QEXdDO2ut3YA:10 a=ijMaxGghyylP-n2pFjDB:22 X-CM-Envelope: MS4xfAwAs6iXDJ1adusNeHEguCz3FJHdQIxcLLed0C8yv0DMF+XDb/V0bF2cH17hZ6W/lhsVqNO2YOA8CFyC5+y5RC5cUvEh8FXiC9KdlVeiJbJBTTgAmZd0 kXR93tb4XarBqDqdIDYPaTxKcJkoki+k78snp22QFqGVx/qWlkfQtFR6IstSgUI9K5AdYs/6fhk+VKdlhqsq0Z8iq1HMrh6qN2By5W4QpjKV7l/1r/1koKqJ X-AuthUser: dhc@dcrocker.net Subject: Re: [NNagain] I keep hoping that we will turn this corner X-BeenThere: nnagain@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: =?utf-8?q?Network_Neutrality_is_back!_Let=C2=B4s_make_the_technical_aspects_heard_this_time!?= List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 02 Jun 2024 02:35:41 -0000 On 6/1/2024 10:39 AM, Robert McMahon wrote: > The idea that there is a single optimum or single holy grail queue > algorithm for the parameter space seems misguided. Robert, Welcome to the world of end-to-end analysis and design.  If your scope is only local, then local optimization probably makes sense.  If your scope is the Internet, it doesn't. In any event, I believe the construct of bufferbloat does not dictate a single number, but a concern for 'too many'. Determining what 'too many' is is fine as a separate exercise, as long as the answer isn't 'lots'... d/ -- Dave Crocker Brandenburg InternetWorking bbiw.net mast:@dcrocker@mastodon.social