From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mail52.out.titan.email (mail52.out.titan.email [209.209.25.115]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by lists.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 00B003B2A4 for ; Wed, 13 Mar 2024 13:58:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp-out.flockmail.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by smtp-out.flockmail.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 79DCAE0259 for ; Wed, 13 Mar 2024 17:58:47 +0000 (UTC) DKIM-Signature: a=rsa-sha256; bh=HZzhYZVaSY0QXX9x7HSyBf7t3fcsVhwqv1hSVv0aQjs=; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=3kitty.org; h=message-id:to:in-reply-to:subject:references:from:mime-version:date:from:to:subject:date:message-id:in-reply-to:references:cc:reply-to; q=dns/txt; s=titan1; t=1710352727; v=1; b=G16ElvnnKZUHUTdxDcE1ihcIUsjPtx34BeD7SilynpSNlaEdY972pbsNn4OSuLyCCNrGggQ5 LIXfUqiqNOguIupdpoRIGC57qrD1J6yq5zMumoCLBAuMf3n/qSNRwIC8srJDynP0MjR2jYkTrmQ 1kc6Id5enD2gXqcCJNJVngu8= Received: from [192.168.1.100] (c-76-137-180-175.hsd1.ca.comcast.net [76.137.180.175]) by smtp-out.flockmail.com (Postfix) with ESMTPA id 11B53E00EF for ; Wed, 13 Mar 2024 17:58:46 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2024 10:58:45 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird To: nnagain@lists.bufferbloat.net References: <2219B9EE-3B69-4937-83FC-0D3CC39528B6@shinkuro.com> Content-Language: en-US Feedback-ID: :jack@3kitty.org:3kitty.org:flockmailId From: Jack Haverty Autocrypt: addr=jack@3kitty.org; keydata= xsDNBGCm2psBDADGOWO8n9wfkDW9ZUEo8o+SZ5MU9us2il+fS4EFM/RaZFIbQ+P72bExzSd3 WnJdPfqO1O7Q+dRnvVO9+G2/9oT/uRZVaE05+SothzKZBv32HcZoUkdNZOTqSkdo3EwNPjid LLxX+dMBxMpR3pBdvGN8Z7lnZe6fV4QO2xtd58y3B33AVZJp+RuNwucby9dY2meyy2BJVKrx mKhYXAucVyg0ALVIchHt9UknVW4aLvQF+oMfzXVvCWeguW+DvbyazVceWGO7FSgUJ8ED3Ii7 xAR5zZJ1LASoMhG1ixg07P9Uy4ohV6c+c0yV9SY4yqhZ3+zN2cm9h/aXpwjSuiVVAJbK7zzb FjI+h89dbnaVQrLx6GikV0OVYqC6TCeMfCFZQAJLs1icxQi3BLL7O1fbTGatEfTgLa5nqfKq K/D/HlOCUeFxqZI8hXvT5dG4e1m3ilpF2/ytcWKSVg3d699UFntPv3sEbAQwwfXsnuD4Hem6 0Ao0/z41n8x1aeZE80FdkpEAEQEAAc0eSmFjayBIYXZlcnR5IDxqYWNrQDNraXR0eS5vcmc+ wsEJBBMBCAAzFiEEZLvMn5vmvTAlFEILdGzDIkA7jlAFAmCm2pwCGwMFCwkIBwIGFQgJCgsC BRYCAwEAAAoJEHRswyJAO45QuX0L/jOluv8fr/BmuEEQsWWGW6oARIbjDQrI93kXIJXuPnfp tGjkx/f1TMIzI2B9s/tejiYE7IZOhWbX1YvKF0UbkSJi50UyV9XtYRnLdD5TcksKB4luDF8S R+nj5WBm17Bp8qwriCMgA1jGL2wQ7J1KUw4Q/gsMcjhn/39PevswkriU2qqVplfCs9yTTMU5 SvtE2U9F3Y1ZINHn3kUysvxhRFd+Oh3PocWHmVE+hkII+qsra6z4eztDgoB+vqxmOJEdtvex GhT8OKu74DacguZVfu/AV+cwpX701sdjJrMyKjcv8uhFLM/E5gf6kSUAFxBVwe6pNDmAgmbS c0fAFrZjgXxNxxndpu/8OAUDVzKg+l5WJ0nWss9Q14BwA+FcoclO3lwzFu7jOiLvkm7jQkFB o+p8Owe4iAED1KK/aocIa/RiD4sZ3KXUJ92kkemZ1Qe2XpFVdzxaQDG0huNkc5Mie9rdt62O Ae+5cYdPeWmBVn+pFNs5H09kQQbVR5pUxe2Aps7AzQRgptqcAQwAzzougHNMFr/O/L8HnNJW 1YyOuX0PEVNUXQPwkxKuD8bAXsPr4Hv1a+840ByesiJSadhQgVSMruRqoQC5tTkbEWkqlfDW waNAdqCJOXl2T6gtK7RpcHNx7+/du/gCAhHOXqH1Qfs0Zi3YEbR/kQFRP3wD4GiCvHSny8zJ X9plIHqQGoE5DePNAtE2KimbFMsjguqJgq5x0tMf3qEaMNd0IGTStGpcC49iss71slotH091 Y1Yo9CpzL6rj8IP0BfssEujAvf3Gbf1oi92JRE3s2humFDfPvSlHmRIfWPQ4qFOw1zmlzsV1 eg83gErKbjaDdkbwQA85RTmMVKNVvonM80WB6jAg8tlJ5VlYlpbzASpJRNj+FL1LLBQxCbPU eFwrzqYgNvtdKR7j5nTgdndCxq+2aws/aAjdL10S8yeH7ZOpNPzjDJfMSt/L1O25zPUhXdQC 9AZNYsfyV7rf+POEgVpIEth1fT9WbmS0rZxRd/+y628n31GicbA+teN890vdABEBAAHCwPYE GAEIACAWIQRku8yfm+a9MCUUQgt0bMMiQDuOUAUCYKbanQIbDAAKCRB0bMMiQDuOUF1LC/4q 4pLtmDt6TIET2H7zGj5ie3ng7kC7YqtFPYwgLQzs9WeqQ/5WowEmHOPonBcqhGbtDj22GebQ 7w0RoUHb+aXsbC85I/C+nWgT1ZcfMBTHGlBcIQvOCNG18g87Ha9jgD0HnW4bRUkZmGMpP0Yd TLM+PBNu41AK6z82VPQrfTuPKqwAAS2FK/RpF2xB7rjpETzIPl9Dj9EAkRbviURIg0BQkmej l02FLzGmlTfBIDHBdEgzvD71Z5H9BP8DAbxBzonSTzx/KZyv7njSUzdVLW+5O/WzPgb4Qt4I jQd66LS9HWS1G7AcLjiSQAIf8v7JkX3NwtN+NGX5cmt2p0e9FOOKWXVgCIgPN3/712EEGAgq UUxuPEBD5DrRCgjZL40eHxQza2BAhoVoWopUCGZdCCZJP3iF7818wIph0U393DELG9NAGLJa qkoA8KBimXp9Rd2QvpA864JRy/REoEOEF9lm3clriLyEqaL/VMIQRhl/VSkUuez4Wr68eHus TFdwePg= In-Reply-To: <2219B9EE-3B69-4937-83FC-0D3CC39528B6@shinkuro.com> Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha256; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="------------DjNloTH8RGx0GkxJfzJLYSLv" X-F-Verdict: SPFVALID X-Titan-Src-Out: 1710352727353237297.4197.6778784275891870688@prod-use1-smtp-out1004. X-CMAE-Score: 0 X-CMAE-Analysis: v=2.4 cv=d4zzywjE c=1 sm=1 tr=0 ts=65f1e957 a=cdvcmBiFVbz+0Uto4GLkPg==:117 a=cdvcmBiFVbz+0Uto4GLkPg==:17 a=CEWIc4RMnpUA:10 a=13zjGPudsaEWiJwPRgMA:9 a=8pif782wAAAA:8 a=iU6_2vou3m4bbWq4WQ4A:9 a=QEXdDO2ut3YA:10 a=8oWd0YM9xzKP0wdTCLUA:9 a=bVMCj7v2QGG3VjRe:21 a=_W_S_7VecoQA:10 a=mVcgwxjBTkr3zjpDlhIA:9 a=FfaGCDsud1wA:10 a=tLQXh2g1QOxfqdaixBEA:9 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV using ClamSMTP Subject: [NNagain] Scope of "Network Neutrality"? X-BeenThere: nnagain@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: =?utf-8?q?Network_Neutrality_is_back!_Let=C2=B4s_make_the_technical_aspects_heard_this_time!?= List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2024 17:58:48 -0000 This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 4880 and 3156) --------------DjNloTH8RGx0GkxJfzJLYSLv Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------5OUfGYQVsAWGcr3HjXXFqQ9Q"; protected-headers="v1" From: Jack Haverty To: nnagain@lists.bufferbloat.net Message-ID: Subject: Scope of "Network Neutrality"? 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I don't know if there is a legal definition of "network neutrality", but Wikipedia says:

"Network neutrality, often referred to as net neutrality, is the principle that Internet service providers (ISPs) must treat all = Internet communications equally, offering users and online content providers consistent rates irrespective of content, we= bsite, platform, application, type of equipment, source address, destination address, or method of communication (i.e., without price discrimination)"

If I put on my non-techie hat and think like a lawyer or politician for a minute (and IANAL), what does "Network Neutrality" mean to me?=C2=A0

My ISP provides me with a variety of "internet communications" services.=C2=A0 It includes the ability to send and receive IP datagr= ams, but as a non-techie human I don't do that myself or even know what it means.=C2=A0=C2=A0 To me, the Network is all about what I use it t= o do.=C2=A0=C2=A0 That includes email, using the web, and other forms of interacting with other humans and organizations.

My ISP provides me with an email address and the ability to send and receive email.=C2=A0 Many ISPs apparently do this too.=C2=A0=C2=A0 So= me also provide me the ability to have my own website which the ISP operates somewhere in its "cloud".=C2=A0

There is much more to "Internet communications services" than just transporting IP datagrams, especially in the minds of the non-techie masses.

Does this mean that email, web hosting, and other such communications that people do on the 'Net must conform to whatever laws, rules, regulations, and policies are created to enforce Network Neutrality?=C2=A0 Why would Network Neutrality be limited to = just the service of transporting IP datagrams?

So, ...

Does that mean that all email must be treated equally?=C2=A0 Can ISPs= , or their Users, limit the kinds of content that can be sent in email?=C2= =A0 Must all "spam filters" be removed since they treat email communications differently based on content, addresses, or other characteristics?=C2=A0=C2=A0 Can "mailing lists" (like this one) rest= rict the content sent through them or the addresses allowed to use them?

Does that mean that all websites must be treated without prejudice -- so that features like "ad blockers" become illegal?

Does that mean that "social media" communications services are ISPs, since they provide communications service as part of the Internet?=C2= =A0=C2=A0 Are they subject to Network Neutrality laws and regulations?

You probably get the idea....=C2=A0=C2=A0 Thinking like a lawyer or policy-maker, how would you answer such questions?=C2=A0=C2=A0 How do= you think the actual policy-makers will?

Jack Haverty

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