Preliminary results of using GPS to look for clock skew

Dave Taht dave.taht at
Thu Sep 22 13:58:17 EDT 2011

On Thu, Sep 22, 2011 at 10:43 AM, Rick Jones <rick.jones2 at> wrote:
> On 09/22/2011 10:34 AM, Dave Taht wrote:
>> On Thu, Sep 22, 2011 at 10:15 AM, Rick Jones<rick.jones2 at>  wrote:
>>>> One thing that surprised me of late is
>>>> while not related, surprises are the last thing we need as regards to
>>>> time.
>>> The decision to stop letting networking contribute to entropy goes back a
>>> few years actually :)
>> I wasn't paying attention then.
>>> In another context, also where running-out of entropy was a problem,
>>> someone
>>> mentioned there are RNGs on USB keys that can be used to provide
>>> randomness/entropy/whatnot.  The one mentioned in that discussion was the
>>> "Entropy Key" from these folks:
>> While I would like RNGs to be on-chip, the lack of randomness in a system
>> that supposedly does a lot of WPA encryption does concern me.
>> Secondly, routers at least have multiple interfaces to get randomness from
>> which would be hard to spoof all at the same time.
>> and wireless routers have more noise sources and interfaces...
>> so while I find the decision to eliminate networking as a source of
>> randomness
>> makes some sense in a device with only one interface, I find it
>> indefensible to
>> have nearly no entropy pool at all as a result for devices with
>> multiple interfaces.
> I don't necessarily disagree, but there were a number of reasons given, many
> of which I believe are/were independent of the number of interfaces in the
> host.  I believe at least some of it can be found at
>  though I
> don't think it has the thread all the way back to its beginning.

These guys are on drugs, and it doesn't look like my point about multiple
interfaces was raised...

"Nearby microwave ovens will add periodicy to the arrival of WLAN data."

Yep, that's your typical attacker, hauling a microwave oven around to
help me crack WPA...

What I want to know is how bad the decline in quality of urandom is
without random sources....

> rick

Dave Täht
SKYPE: davetaht
US Tel: 1-239-829-5608

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