[Bloat] [Ecn-sane] My (controversial) position paper on TCP

David Lang david at lang.hm
Wed Mar 20 18:55:53 EDT 2019

On Wed, 20 Mar 2019, David Collier-Brown wrote:

> On 2019-03-20 4:29 p.m., David Lang wrote:
>> On Wed, 20 Mar 2019, David Collier-Brown wrote:
>>> On 2019-03-20 10:28 a.m., Mikael Abrahamsson wrote:
>>>> This isn't a resource problem, it's a code problem. The IETF wants 10-15 
>>>> year old hosts to be able to connect to a network and perform basic 
>>>> networking. It might not be very optimized, but the basic function should 
>>>> be there. New functionality can optimize for different factors, but 
>>>> making older host stop working is frowned upon.
>>> Fortunately this is a solved problem in capacity planning: you replace 
>>> machines often enough that they're not constantly out of service being 
>>> repaired. 10 to 15 human-years is the equivalent of 70 to 105 of the 
>>> dog-years we use in this silly business (;-))
>> I have quite a number of consumer devices from 2000 or earlier still 
>> running, consumer endpoints (aka IoT devices) do not get updated very much, 
>> if at all.
>> David Lang
> Interesting thought: I wasn't expecting consumer devices from 14 years ago! 
> What do you have?

I've got 4 Tivo's that have been in operation since 2000, they have add-on 
netork cards instead of the original dial-up.

At the Scale conference earlier this month, I used a couple of dozen wndr3800 
APs that were sold in 2010. They are actually still used extensively (I have 
updated software on them). I've seen a lot of people who still use the stock 
AP/router their ISP gave them when they signed up for service many years ago.

Technology refreshes happen at (some) companies, many homes tend to run things 
untilthey break.

Even at some companies, I've seen them running 7+ year old hardware in 
mission-critical production situations.

David Lang

> In our house,
> * the cable modem is about a year old,
> * it's predecessor was about 5 when it died,
> * the old printer was 3 years old
> * the new one is about 4
> * my homemade PVR is about 6, and is starting to look elderly, and
> * the old cable box was about 3,
> * the new one about one
> * and my netbook is older than the PVR by maybe a year or so (;-))
> --dave
> (I intentionally skipped IOT devices, as I expect they could change/pivot 
> hugely about the time the market starts to mature,

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