[Bloat] Updated Bufferbloat Test

Daniel Lakeland contact at lakelandappliedsciences.com
Thu Feb 25 20:06:17 EST 2021


On 2/25/21 12:14 PM, Sebastian Moeller wrote:
> Hi Sina,
>
> let me try to invite Daniel Lakeland (cc'd) into this discussion. He is doing tremendous work in the OpenWrt forum to single handedly help gamers getting the most out of their connections. I think he might have some opinion and data on latency requirements for modern gaming.
> 	@Daniel, this discussion is about a new and really nice speedtest (that I already plugging in the OpenWrt forum, as you probably recall) that has a strong focus on latency under load increases. We are currently discussion what latency increase limits to use to rate a connection for on-line gaming
>
> Now, as a non-gamer, I would assume that gaming has at least similarly strict latency requirements as VoIP, as in most games even a slight delay at the wrong time can direct;y translate into a "game-over". But as I said, I stopped reflex gaming pretty much when I realized how badly I was doing in doom/quake.
>
> Best Regards
> 	Sebastian
>
Thanks Sebastian,

I have used the waveform.com test myself, and found that it didn't do a 
good job of measuring latency in terms of having rather high outlying 
tails, which were not realistic for the actual traffic of interest.

Here's a test. I ran this test while doing a ping flood, with attached 
txt file

https://www.waveform.com/tools/bufferbloat?test-id=e2fb822d-458b-43c6-984a-92694333ae92


Now this is with a QFQ on my desktop, and a custom HFSC shaper on my WAN 
router. This is somewhat more relaxed than I used to run things (I used 
to HFSC shape my desktop too, but now I just reschedule with QFQ). Pings 
get highest priority along with interactive traffic in the QFQ system, 
and they get low-latency but not realtime treatment at the WAN boundary. 
Basically you can see this never went above 44ms ping time, whereas the 
waveform test had outliers up to 228/231 ms

Almost all latency sensitive traffic will be UDP. Specifically the voice 
in VOIP, and the control packets in games, those are all UDP. However it 
seems like the waveform test measures http connection open/close, and 
I'm thinking something about that is causing extreme outliers. From the 
test description:

"We are using HTTP requests instead of WebSockets for our latency and 
speed test. This has both advantages and disadvantages in terms of 
measuring bufferbloat. We hope to improve this test in the future to 
measure latency both via WebSockets, HTTP requests, and WebRTC Data 
Channels."

I think the ideal test would use webRTC connection using UDP.

A lot of the games I've seen packet captures from have a fixed clock 
tick in the vicinity of 60-65Hz with a UDP packet sent every tick. Even 
1 packet lost per second would generally feel not that good to a player, 
and it doesn't even need to be lost, just delayed by a large fraction of 
1/64 = 15.6ms... High performance games will use closer to 120Hz.

So to guarantee good network performance for a game, you really want to 
ensure less than say 10ms of increasing latency at the say 99.5%tile 
(that's 1 packet delayed 67% or more of the between-packet time every 
200 packets or so, or every ~3 seconds at 64Hz)

To measure this would really require WebRTC sending ~ 300 byte packets 
at say 64Hz to a reflector that would send them back, and then compare 
the send time to the receive time.

Rather than picking a strict percentile, I'd recommend trying to give a 
"probability of no noticeable lag in a 1 second interval" or something 
like that.

Supposing your test runs for say 10 seconds, you'll have 640 RTT 
samples. Resampling 64 of them randomly say 100 times and calculate how 
many of these resamples have less than 1/64 = 15ms of increased latency. 
Then express something like 97% chance of lag free each second, or 45% 
chance of lag free each second or whatever.

This is a quite stringent requirement. But you know what? The message 
boards are FLOODED with people unhappy with their gaming performance, so 
I think it's realistic. Honestly to tell a technically minded gamer "Hey 
5% of your packets will be delayed more than 400ms"  they'd say THAT"S 
HORRIBLE not "oh good".

If a gamer can keep their round trip time below 10ms of latency increase 
at the 99.5%tile level they'll probably be feeling good. If they get 
above 20ms of increase for more than 1% of the time, they'll be really 
irritated (this is more or less equivalent to 1% packet drop)


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PING waveform.com (23.227.38.65) 56(84) bytes of data.
64 bytes from myshopify.com (23.227.38.65): icmp_seq=1 ttl=53 time=15.8 ms
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64 bytes from myshopify.com (23.227.38.65): icmp_seq=438 ttl=53 time=15.1 ms
64 bytes from myshopify.com (23.227.38.65): icmp_seq=439 ttl=53 time=15.6 ms
64 bytes from myshopify.com (23.227.38.65): icmp_seq=440 ttl=53 time=15.6 ms
64 bytes from myshopify.com (23.227.38.65): icmp_seq=441 ttl=53 time=15.2 ms
64 bytes from myshopify.com (23.227.38.65): icmp_seq=442 ttl=53 time=16.0 ms
64 bytes from myshopify.com (23.227.38.65): icmp_seq=443 ttl=53 time=15.1 ms
64 bytes from myshopify.com (23.227.38.65): icmp_seq=444 ttl=53 time=15.1 ms
64 bytes from myshopify.com (23.227.38.65): icmp_seq=445 ttl=53 time=15.0 ms
64 bytes from myshopify.com (23.227.38.65): icmp_seq=446 ttl=53 time=15.1 ms
64 bytes from myshopify.com (23.227.38.65): icmp_seq=447 ttl=53 time=14.8 ms
64 bytes from myshopify.com (23.227.38.65): icmp_seq=448 ttl=53 time=15.4 ms
64 bytes from myshopify.com (23.227.38.65): icmp_seq=449 ttl=53 time=15.2 ms
64 bytes from myshopify.com (23.227.38.65): icmp_seq=450 ttl=53 time=15.3 ms
64 bytes from myshopify.com (23.227.38.65): icmp_seq=451 ttl=53 time=15.1 ms
64 bytes from myshopify.com (23.227.38.65): icmp_seq=452 ttl=53 time=15.0 ms
64 bytes from myshopify.com (23.227.38.65): icmp_seq=453 ttl=53 time=15.6 ms
64 bytes from myshopify.com (23.227.38.65): icmp_seq=454 ttl=53 time=16.0 ms
64 bytes from myshopify.com (23.227.38.65): icmp_seq=455 ttl=53 time=15.4 ms
64 bytes from myshopify.com (23.227.38.65): icmp_seq=456 ttl=53 time=16.6 ms
64 bytes from myshopify.com (23.227.38.65): icmp_seq=457 ttl=53 time=15.8 ms
64 bytes from myshopify.com (23.227.38.65): icmp_seq=458 ttl=53 time=16.0 ms
64 bytes from myshopify.com (23.227.38.65): icmp_seq=459 ttl=53 time=15.4 ms
64 bytes from myshopify.com (23.227.38.65): icmp_seq=460 ttl=53 time=15.9 ms
64 bytes from myshopify.com (23.227.38.65): icmp_seq=461 ttl=53 time=15.1 ms
64 bytes from myshopify.com (23.227.38.65): icmp_seq=462 ttl=53 time=15.6 ms
64 bytes from myshopify.com (23.227.38.65): icmp_seq=463 ttl=53 time=15.9 ms
64 bytes from myshopify.com (23.227.38.65): icmp_seq=464 ttl=53 time=15.6 ms
64 bytes from myshopify.com (23.227.38.65): icmp_seq=465 ttl=53 time=15.5 ms
64 bytes from myshopify.com (23.227.38.65): icmp_seq=466 ttl=53 time=14.8 ms
64 bytes from myshopify.com (23.227.38.65): icmp_seq=467 ttl=53 time=14.8 ms
64 bytes from myshopify.com (23.227.38.65): icmp_seq=468 ttl=53 time=15.8 ms
64 bytes from myshopify.com (23.227.38.65): icmp_seq=469 ttl=53 time=15.3 ms
64 bytes from myshopify.com (23.227.38.65): icmp_seq=470 ttl=53 time=15.2 ms
64 bytes from myshopify.com (23.227.38.65): icmp_seq=471 ttl=53 time=15.5 ms
64 bytes from myshopify.com (23.227.38.65): icmp_seq=472 ttl=53 time=15.4 ms
64 bytes from myshopify.com (23.227.38.65): icmp_seq=473 ttl=53 time=15.4 ms
64 bytes from myshopify.com (23.227.38.65): icmp_seq=474 ttl=53 time=15.3 ms
64 bytes from myshopify.com (23.227.38.65): icmp_seq=475 ttl=53 time=15.5 ms
64 bytes from myshopify.com (23.227.38.65): icmp_seq=476 ttl=53 time=14.8 ms
64 bytes from myshopify.com (23.227.38.65): icmp_seq=477 ttl=53 time=14.8 ms
64 bytes from myshopify.com (23.227.38.65): icmp_seq=478 ttl=53 time=14.9 ms
64 bytes from myshopify.com (23.227.38.65): icmp_seq=479 ttl=53 time=16.4 ms
64 bytes from myshopify.com (23.227.38.65): icmp_seq=480 ttl=53 time=15.5 ms
64 bytes from myshopify.com (23.227.38.65): icmp_seq=481 ttl=53 time=15.4 ms
64 bytes from myshopify.com (23.227.38.65): icmp_seq=482 ttl=53 time=15.1 ms
64 bytes from myshopify.com (23.227.38.65): icmp_seq=483 ttl=53 time=15.6 ms
64 bytes from myshopify.com (23.227.38.65): icmp_seq=484 ttl=53 time=14.8 ms
64 bytes from myshopify.com (23.227.38.65): icmp_seq=485 ttl=53 time=15.2 ms
64 bytes from myshopify.com (23.227.38.65): icmp_seq=486 ttl=53 time=15.4 ms
64 bytes from myshopify.com (23.227.38.65): icmp_seq=487 ttl=53 time=14.6 ms
64 bytes from myshopify.com (23.227.38.65): icmp_seq=488 ttl=53 time=14.8 ms
64 bytes from myshopify.com (23.227.38.65): icmp_seq=489 ttl=53 time=15.1 ms
64 bytes from myshopify.com (23.227.38.65): icmp_seq=490 ttl=53 time=14.8 ms
64 bytes from myshopify.com (23.227.38.65): icmp_seq=491 ttl=53 time=15.4 ms
64 bytes from myshopify.com (23.227.38.65): icmp_seq=492 ttl=53 time=14.7 ms
64 bytes from myshopify.com (23.227.38.65): icmp_seq=493 ttl=53 time=15.1 ms
64 bytes from myshopify.com (23.227.38.65): icmp_seq=494 ttl=53 time=15.4 ms
64 bytes from myshopify.com (23.227.38.65): icmp_seq=495 ttl=53 time=15.3 ms
64 bytes from myshopify.com (23.227.38.65): icmp_seq=496 ttl=53 time=15.1 ms
64 bytes from myshopify.com (23.227.38.65): icmp_seq=497 ttl=53 time=14.8 ms
64 bytes from myshopify.com (23.227.38.65): icmp_seq=498 ttl=53 time=14.7 ms
64 bytes from myshopify.com (23.227.38.65): icmp_seq=499 ttl=53 time=15.0 ms
64 bytes from myshopify.com (23.227.38.65): icmp_seq=500 ttl=53 time=15.1 ms
64 bytes from myshopify.com (23.227.38.65): icmp_seq=501 ttl=53 time=14.8 ms
64 bytes from myshopify.com (23.227.38.65): icmp_seq=502 ttl=53 time=21.8 ms
64 bytes from myshopify.com (23.227.38.65): icmp_seq=503 ttl=53 time=14.8 ms
64 bytes from myshopify.com (23.227.38.65): icmp_seq=504 ttl=53 time=15.3 ms
64 bytes from myshopify.com (23.227.38.65): icmp_seq=505 ttl=53 time=15.4 ms
64 bytes from myshopify.com (23.227.38.65): icmp_seq=506 ttl=53 time=14.9 ms
64 bytes from myshopify.com (23.227.38.65): icmp_seq=507 ttl=53 time=14.8 ms
64 bytes from myshopify.com (23.227.38.65): icmp_seq=508 ttl=53 time=15.1 ms
64 bytes from myshopify.com (23.227.38.65): icmp_seq=509 ttl=53 time=15.4 ms
64 bytes from myshopify.com (23.227.38.65): icmp_seq=510 ttl=53 time=15.4 ms
64 bytes from myshopify.com (23.227.38.65): icmp_seq=511 ttl=53 time=15.3 ms
64 bytes from myshopify.com (23.227.38.65): icmp_seq=512 ttl=53 time=15.1 ms
64 bytes from myshopify.com (23.227.38.65): icmp_seq=513 ttl=53 time=15.2 ms
64 bytes from myshopify.com (23.227.38.65): icmp_seq=514 ttl=53 time=15.6 ms
64 bytes from myshopify.com (23.227.38.65): icmp_seq=515 ttl=53 time=16.9 ms
64 bytes from myshopify.com (23.227.38.65): icmp_seq=516 ttl=53 time=15.7 ms
64 bytes from myshopify.com (23.227.38.65): icmp_seq=517 ttl=53 time=14.6 ms
64 bytes from myshopify.com (23.227.38.65): icmp_seq=518 ttl=53 time=15.6 ms
64 bytes from myshopify.com (23.227.38.65): icmp_seq=519 ttl=53 time=15.5 ms
64 bytes from myshopify.com (23.227.38.65): icmp_seq=520 ttl=53 time=15.2 ms
64 bytes from myshopify.com (23.227.38.65): icmp_seq=521 ttl=53 time=14.6 ms
64 bytes from myshopify.com (23.227.38.65): icmp_seq=522 ttl=53 time=14.8 ms
64 bytes from myshopify.com (23.227.38.65): icmp_seq=523 ttl=53 time=15.0 ms
64 bytes from myshopify.com (23.227.38.65): icmp_seq=524 ttl=53 time=15.4 ms
64 bytes from myshopify.com (23.227.38.65): icmp_seq=525 ttl=53 time=15.5 ms
64 bytes from myshopify.com (23.227.38.65): icmp_seq=526 ttl=53 time=14.7 ms
64 bytes from myshopify.com (23.227.38.65): icmp_seq=527 ttl=53 time=14.7 ms
64 bytes from myshopify.com (23.227.38.65): icmp_seq=528 ttl=53 time=15.2 ms
64 bytes from myshopify.com (23.227.38.65): icmp_seq=529 ttl=53 time=15.3 ms
64 bytes from myshopify.com (23.227.38.65): icmp_seq=530 ttl=53 time=14.8 ms
64 bytes from myshopify.com (23.227.38.65): icmp_seq=531 ttl=53 time=15.7 ms
64 bytes from myshopify.com (23.227.38.65): icmp_seq=532 ttl=53 time=14.8 ms
64 bytes from myshopify.com (23.227.38.65): icmp_seq=533 ttl=53 time=15.4 ms
64 bytes from myshopify.com (23.227.38.65): icmp_seq=534 ttl=53 time=15.7 ms
64 bytes from myshopify.com (23.227.38.65): icmp_seq=535 ttl=53 time=14.6 ms
64 bytes from myshopify.com (23.227.38.65): icmp_seq=536 ttl=53 time=15.1 ms
64 bytes from myshopify.com (23.227.38.65): icmp_seq=537 ttl=53 time=14.9 ms
64 bytes from myshopify.com (23.227.38.65): icmp_seq=538 ttl=53 time=15.5 ms
64 bytes from myshopify.com (23.227.38.65): icmp_seq=539 ttl=53 time=15.4 ms
64 bytes from myshopify.com (23.227.38.65): icmp_seq=540 ttl=53 time=14.8 ms
64 bytes from myshopify.com (23.227.38.65): icmp_seq=541 ttl=53 time=14.8 ms
64 bytes from myshopify.com (23.227.38.65): icmp_seq=542 ttl=53 time=16.1 ms
64 bytes from myshopify.com (23.227.38.65): icmp_seq=543 ttl=53 time=14.7 ms
64 bytes from myshopify.com (23.227.38.65): icmp_seq=544 ttl=53 time=15.2 ms
64 bytes from myshopify.com (23.227.38.65): icmp_seq=545 ttl=53 time=15.4 ms
64 bytes from myshopify.com (23.227.38.65): icmp_seq=546 ttl=53 time=14.7 ms
64 bytes from myshopify.com (23.227.38.65): icmp_seq=547 ttl=53 time=15.1 ms
64 bytes from myshopify.com (23.227.38.65): icmp_seq=548 ttl=53 time=15.4 ms
64 bytes from myshopify.com (23.227.38.65): icmp_seq=549 ttl=53 time=15.1 ms
64 bytes from myshopify.com (23.227.38.65): icmp_seq=550 ttl=53 time=14.7 ms
64 bytes from myshopify.com (23.227.38.65): icmp_seq=551 ttl=53 time=15.2 ms
64 bytes from myshopify.com (23.227.38.65): icmp_seq=552 ttl=53 time=15.8 ms
64 bytes from myshopify.com (23.227.38.65): icmp_seq=553 ttl=53 time=15.1 ms
64 bytes from myshopify.com (23.227.38.65): icmp_seq=554 ttl=53 time=14.8 ms
64 bytes from myshopify.com (23.227.38.65): icmp_seq=555 ttl=53 time=14.7 ms
64 bytes from myshopify.com (23.227.38.65): icmp_seq=556 ttl=53 time=15.0 ms
64 bytes from myshopify.com (23.227.38.65): icmp_seq=557 ttl=53 time=15.4 ms
64 bytes from myshopify.com (23.227.38.65): icmp_seq=558 ttl=53 time=15.3 ms
64 bytes from myshopify.com (23.227.38.65): icmp_seq=559 ttl=53 time=14.7 ms
64 bytes from myshopify.com (23.227.38.65): icmp_seq=560 ttl=53 time=15.1 ms
64 bytes from myshopify.com (23.227.38.65): icmp_seq=561 ttl=53 time=14.8 ms
64 bytes from myshopify.com (23.227.38.65): icmp_seq=562 ttl=53 time=15.5 ms
64 bytes from myshopify.com (23.227.38.65): icmp_seq=563 ttl=53 time=15.2 ms
64 bytes from myshopify.com (23.227.38.65): icmp_seq=564 ttl=53 time=15.6 ms
64 bytes from myshopify.com (23.227.38.65): icmp_seq=565 ttl=53 time=15.5 ms
64 bytes from myshopify.com (23.227.38.65): icmp_seq=566 ttl=53 time=15.6 ms
64 bytes from myshopify.com (23.227.38.65): icmp_seq=567 ttl=53 time=15.0 ms

--- waveform.com ping statistics ---
567 packets transmitted, 558 received, 1.5873% packet loss, time 114141ms
rtt min/avg/max/mdev = 14.545/17.098/44.054/3.849 ms


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