[Bloat] [LibreQoS] Fwd: [New post] More Mapping Drama

Wed Apr 12 11:33:10 EDT 2023

Thanks for sharing,

Are you aware that after receiving ISOC training at the INET 99 networking
workshop for developing countries in San Jose way back in 1999 - I went
back to my (then) home country, Kenya, and built/started KIXP with
assistance from Cisco and hands on support from Barry Raveendran Greene
(formerly Cisco)?

Thereafter and for next 8 odd years as GM for AfrISPA (African ISP
Association) I turned up or helped turn up IXPs in about 12 other African
countries - mostly funded under a project called “Catalysing Access to ICTs
in Africa” funded by UKs DFID, Canada’s IDRC and others.

I even did a couple of trips with Bill Woodcock in Africa and Asia.

Ta,

Brian

On Wed, 12 Apr 2023 at 4:28 PM, Dave Taht via LibreQoS <
libreqos at lists.bufferbloat.net> wrote:

> I would like to bring back the IXP concepts in the USA.
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ---------
> From: Jane Coffin <jane at connecthumanity.fund>
> Date: Tue, Apr 11, 2023 at 10:23 AM
> Subject: Re: [New post] More Mapping Drama
> To: Garland McCoy <garland.mccoy at pagcasa.org>
> Cc: Dave Taht <dave.taht at gmail.com>, National Broadband Mapping Coalition
> <bbcoalition at marconisociety.org>, Bill Woodcock <woody at pch.net>
>
>
> Actually.  Bill is one of the IXP masters, but....
>
>  ISOC has done a helluva lot of IXP build around the world, and I would
> tip my hat to Michuki Mwangi (ISOC) and Nishal Goburdhan (PCH) along with
> some folks at Netnod (Swedish exchange), and INEX (Irish exchange - used
> those cats for training and they came up with the brilliant app - IXP
> Manager).  I also would tag Philip Smith (NSRC and father of BGP and LINX),
> Christian O'Flaherty - one of my partners in crime on IXP build, Hisham
> Ibrahim (formerly with AfriNIC and now with RIPE NCC), Jan Zorz (was with
> ISOC now a v6 evangelist), Karen Rose (formerly with ISOC), Naveed Haq and
> Aftab Siddiqui (of ISOC), Brent McIntosh (Grenada), and Bevil Wooding
> (formerly with PCH and now with ARIN).  I also would note the amazing work
> that the IXP Associations have done around the planet, and note the Peering
> Forums - PIFs that ISOC with partners like PCH created around the world -
> except for the US.  AfPIF - the African Peering and Interconnection Forum
> and CarPIF - the Caribbean Peering and Interconnection Forum, BKNIX, the
> Bangkok Peering forum.  One can't talk about IXPs without a nod to NOGs
> (Network Operator Groups).  The US had the first NOG - NANOG, and they have
> taken off from there.  ISOC uses NOGs, and PIFs, and IXPs, and the RIRs to
> promote Mutually Agreed Norms for Routing Security (MANRS)...great
> initiative and I would urge anyone looking at secure routing to chat with
> them and the RIRs (RPKI etc).
>
> Note that ISOC is the only org that has put out multiple studies that show
> over time and via snapshots the importance of IXPs to build your local
> Internet, increase resilience, allow for redundancy of nets at the local
> level, and has tracked how much latency diminishes, performance increases,
> and how quickly prices drop.
>
> Big Telcos in the US nearly killed bottom-up carrier neutral IXPs.  Thank
> goodness for ISOC, the RIRs (LACNIC, AfriNIC, ARIN, APNIC, and RIPE NCC),
> ICANN, IETF to a degree, NSRC, PCH, the NOGs, and the Peering Fora for
> keeping network training, the importance of diverse peering ecosystems, and
> the IXPs that are making a resurgence in the US.
>
> It takes a village.  A well-trained diverse village.
>
> On Mon, Apr 10, 2023 at 9:51 AM Garland McCoy <garland.mccoy at pagcasa.org>
> wrote:
>
>>  Dave, I am sure Jane would agree that THE global master IXP builder is
>> Bill Woodcock and his colleagues at Packet Clearing House (
>> https://www.pch.net/) Bill has been doing this for decades (and decades
>> and decades). I have cced him in so you can circle the wagons. If by any
>> chance you want SECURE Edges as part of your IXP deployment you should look
>> up Onclave Networks (see link below)
>>
>>  https://onclavenetworks.com/
>>
>>
>>
>> On Apr 10, 2023, at 9:40 AM, Jane Coffin <jane at connecthumanity.fund>
>> wrote:
>>
>> Dave -
>>
>> On IXPs - I can give you a lot of global examples.  On the US - less so.
>> One of the founders of SF-MIX is at Connect Humanity and is talking to some
>> folks about neutral/bottom-up IXPs - ISOC style, IFX, Euro-IX, Af-IX,
>> LAC-IX, and AP-IX style.
>>
>> ISOC also has some excellent reports that show the impact of IXPs in
>> countries - cheaper, better, faster local connectivity - and local
>> resiliency and redundancy vs tromboning traffic that benefits
>> transit/transport vs local fabric.
>>
>> Jane
>>
>> On Mon, Apr 10, 2023 at 9:08 AM Dave Taht <dave.taht at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> While I frequently do not agree with doug´s blog, he does make for
>>> interesting reading, and oy! a bill to slow things down further... :(
>>>
>>> I am also curious as to the state of the cybergeography these days.
>>> (anyone remember this old project?
>>>
>>> https://web.archive.org/web/20060218123215/http://www.cybergeography.org/atlas/topology.html
>>> )
>>>
>>> I have been researching the state of the IXPs nowadays, and kind of
>>> wondering if there was a noticeable difference in service quality between
>>> cities with IXPs and those without. Anyone?
>>>
>>>
>>> https://www.pch.net/ixp/summary_growth_by_country#!mt-sort=ixp_current%2Cdesc!mt-pivot=ixp_current
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ---------- Forwarded message ---------
>>> From: POTs and PANs <donotreply at wordpress.com>
>>> Date: Mon, Apr 10, 2023 at 4:35 AM
>>> Subject: [New post] More Mapping Drama
>>> To: <dave.taht at gmail.com>
>>>
>>>
>>> [image: Site logo image] Doug Dawson, CCG Consulting posted: "As if the
>>> federal mapping process needed more drama, Senator Jacky Rosen (Dem-Nevada)
>>> and John Thune (Rep-South Dakota) have introduced bill S.1162 that would
>>> “ensure that broadband maps are accurate before funds are allocated under
>>> the Broadband Equity, " POTs and PANs <https://potsandpansbyccg.com/> More
>>> Mapping Drama
>>> <https://public-api.wordpress.com/bar/?stat=groovemails-events&bin=wpcom_email_click&redirect_to=https%3A%2F%2Fpotsandpansbyccg.com%2F2023%2F04%2F10%2Fmore-mapping-drama%2F&sr=0&signature=cb143a1d8898a71681aebd52278c0bf3&blog_id=49312101&user=97642389&_e=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&_z=z>
>>>
>>> Doug Dawson, CCG Consulting
>>> Apr 10
>>>
>>>
>>> <https://potsandpansbyccg.com/2022/12/19/the-individual-fcc-map-challenge/fcc-broadband-map/#main>As
>>> if the federal mapping process needed more drama, Senator Jacky Rosen
>>> (Dem-Nevada) and John Thune (Rep-South Dakota) have introduced bill S.1162
>>> that would “ensure that broadband maps are accurate before funds are
>>> allocated under the Broadband Equity, Access, and Deployment Program based
>>> on those maps”.
>>>
>>> If this law is enacted, the distribution of most of the BEAD grant funds
>>> to States would be delayed by at least six months, probably longer. The
>>> NTIA has already said that it intends to announce the allocation of the
>>> $42.5 billion in grants to the states on June 30. The funds are supposed to
>>> be allocated using the best count of unserved and underserved locations in
>>> each state on that date. Unserved locations are those that can’t buy
>>> broadband of at least 25/3 Mbps. Underserved locations are those unable to
>>> buy broadband with speeds of at least 100/20 Mbps.
>>>
>>> To add to the story, FCC Commissioner Jessica Rosenworcel recently
>>> announced that the FCC has largely completed the broadband map updates.
>>> That announcement surprised the folks in the industry who have been working
>>> with the map data, since everybody I talk to is still seeing a lot of
>>> inaccuracies in the maps.
>>>
>>> To the FCC’s credit, its vendor CostQuest has been processing thousands
>>> of individual challenges to the maps daily and has addressed 600 bulk
>>> challenges that have been filed by States, counties, and other local
>>> government entities. In making the announcement, Rosenworcel said that the
>>> new map has added over one million new locations to the broadband map –
>>> homes and businesses that were missed in the creation of the first version
>>> of the map last fall.
>>>
>>> But the FCC map has two important components that must be correct for
>>> the overall maps to be correct. The first is the mapping fabric that is
>>> supposed to identify every location in the country that is a potential
>>> broadband customer. I view this as a nearly impossible task. The US Census
>>> spends many billions every ten years to identify the addresses of residents
>>> and businesses in the country. CostQuest tried to duplicate the same thing
>>> on a much smaller budget and with the time pressure of the maps being used
>>> to allocate these grants. It’s challenging to count potential broadband
>>> customers. I wrote a blog last year
>>> <https://potsandpansbyccg.com/2022/09/19/the-fcc-mapping-fabric/> that
>>> outlined a few of the dozens of issues that must be addressed to get an
>>> accurate map. It’s hard to think that CostQuest somehow figured out all of
>>> these complicated questions in the last six months.
>>>
>>> Even if the fabric is much improved, the more important issue is that
>>> the accuracy of the broadband map is reliant on two issues that are
>>> reported by ISPs – the coverage area where an ISP should be able to connect
>>> a new customer within ten days of a request, and the broadband speeds that
>>> are available to a home or business at each location.
>>>
>>> ISPs are pretty much free to claim whatever they want. While there has
>>> been a lot of work done to challenge the fabric and the location of
>>> possible customers – it’s a lot harder to challenge the coverage claims of
>>> specific ISPs. A true challenge would require many millions of individual
>>> challenges about the broadband that is available at each home.
>>>
>>> Just consider my own home. The national broadband map says there are ten
>>> ISPs available at my address. Several I’ve never heard of, and I’m willing
>>> to bet that at least a few of them can’t serve me – but since I’m already
>>> buying broadband from an ISP, I can’t think of any reason that would lead
>>> me to challenge the claims of the ISPs I’m not using. The FCC thinks that
>>> the challenge process will somehow fix the coverage issue – I can’t imagine
>>> that more than a tiny fraction of folks are ever going to care enough to go
>>> through the FCC map challenge process – or even know that the broadband map
>>> exists.
>>>
>>> The FCC mapping has also not yet figured out how to come to grips with
>>> broadband coverage claimed by wireless ISPs. It’s not hard looking through
>>> the FCC data to find numerous WISPs that claim large coverage areas. In
>>> real life, the availability of a wireless connection is complicated. The
>>> FCC reporting is in the process of requiring wireless carriers to report
>>> using a ‘heat map’ that shows the strength of the wireless signal at
>>> various distances from each individual radio. But even these heat maps
>>> won’t tell the full story. WISPs are sometimes able to find ways to serve
>>> customers that are not within easy reach of a tower. But just like with
>>> cellphone coverage, there are usually plenty of dead zones around a radio
>>> that can’t be reached but that will still be claimed on a heat map - heat
>>> maps are nothing more than a rough approximation of actual coverage. It’s
>>> hard to imagine that wireless coverage areas will ever be fully accurate.
>>>
>>> DSL coverage over telephone copper is equally impossible to map
>>> correctly, and there are still places where DSL is claimed but which can't
>>> be served.
>>>
>>> Broadband speeds are even harder to challenge. Under the FCC mapping
>>> rules, ISPs are allowed to claim marketing speeds. If an ISP markets
>>> broadband as capable of 100/20 Mbps, they can claim that speed on the
>>> broadband map. It doesn’t matter if the actual broadband delivered is only
>>> a fraction of that speed. There are so many factors that affect broadband
>>> speeds that the maps will never accurately depict the speeds folks can
>>> really buy. It’s amazingly disingenuous for the FCC to say the maps are
>>> accurate. The best we could ever hope for is that the maps will be better
>>> if, and only if ISPs scrupulously follow the reporting rules – but nobody
>>> thinks that is going to happen.
>>>
>>> I understand the frustration of the Senators who are suggesting this
>>> legislation. But I also think that we’ll never get an accurate set of maps.
>>> Don’t forget that Congress created the requirement to use the maps to
>>> allocate the BEAD grant dollars. Grant funding could have been done in
>>> other ways that didn't relay on the maps. I don’t think it’s going to make
>>> much difference if we delay six months, a year, or four years – the maps
>>> are going to remain consistently inconsistent.
>>> Comment
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>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> AMA March 31:
>>> https://www.broadband.io/c/broadband-grant-events/dave-taht
>>> Dave Täht CEO, TekLibre, LLC
>>>
>>> --
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>>> <https://groups.google.com/a/marconisociety.org/d/msgid/BBCoalition/CAA93jw7BmWMw-yeovaQsC-sK2Ufdzp3Dnv-hT4hdqBGoOwjFxg%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>
>>> .
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>>
>> --
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>> <https://groups.google.com/a/marconisociety.org/d/msgid/BBCoalition/CAAk_8j0vm0Gsj%3DmOP0LLw3C-kUhk8knZaKK-BPXPSB4B8e1vnQ%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>
>> .
>>
>>
>> Garland T. McCoy | Co-Founder & Executive Director | PAgCASA (Precision Ag
>> Connectivity & Accuracy Stakeholder Alliance) | www.pagcasa.org
>> <http://www.pagcasa.org>  | garland.mccoy at pagcasa.org
>> <mailto:garland.mccoy at pagcasa.org> | Adjunct Professor,
>> Syracuse University
>> iSchool | gmccoy at syr.edu <mailto:gmccoy at syr.edu>  | 202-906-0654
>>
>>
>>
>
> --
> AMA March 31: https://www.broadband.io/c/broadband-grant-events/dave-taht
> Dave Täht CEO, TekLibre, LLC
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