[Bloat] [NNagain] The Verge: The quiet plan to make the internet feel faster

[Frantisek Borsik]

…and I’m adding NN again, because:

No matter which evil end game is actually the one, it will create a quite a
havoc.

Seeing, for example Netflix, participating in L4S trail (they said it was
for their cloud gaming, while at IETF 118) is in my mind the same like
seeing a capitalist, an entrepreneur selling a rope to a bloodthirsty
communist that want to create a noose to hang him on it :-) but if one
don’t see/hear evil…there is no hope.


All the best,

Frank
Frantisek (Frank) Borsik

https://www.linkedin.com/in/frantisekborsik
Signal, Telegram, WhatsApp: +421919416714
iMessage, mobile: +420775230885
Skype: casioa5302ca
frantisek.borsik at gmail.com


On Mon, 11 Dec 2023 at 10:52 AM, Sebastian Moeller <moeller0 at gmx.de> wrote:

> Hi Frantisek,
>
> steering this to the bloat list, as I have a hunch my response might not
> be appropriate for the wide audience in NNagain even though this can have
> NN ramifications.
>
>
> > On Dec 11, 2023, at 10:50, Frantisek Borsik via Nnagain <
> nnagain at lists.bufferbloat.net> wrote:
> >
> > Top story on HN:
> >
> > h++ps://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38597744
> >
> > My pick for top comment:
> >
> > <image_6487327.JPG>
> >
> >
> > A possible L4S end game? 😁
>
> Unlikely, as that would e.g. violate EU directive 2015/2120 too blatantly.
> My take is more subtle, L4S is essentially a technique that only works well
> for short RTTs and the end game is to make datacenter space inside
> eyeball-ISPs much more desirable and hence yielding higher prices... L4S
> effectively increases TCPs existing RTT bias* and hence makes long range
> L4S connections undesirable/under-performing, and that implies that content
> providers that want to use L4S will need to get their servers/CDNs close to
> the eye-balls. But hey, I would love to be wrong and ISPs jus do this out
> of the goodness of their hearts... (only then I would politely ask the to
> deploy a flow queueing AQM instead of DualQ, as that in one swoop will
> solve a ship-load of L4S problems).
>
> Regards
>         Sebastian
>
>
> *) L4S argues that this is not an increase, but that due to removing
> traditional TCP's excess queueing it just reveals TCPs inherent RTT bias;
> IMHO that is a bull shit argument since the root cause is not important,
> what matters is that with L4S RTT bias becomes measurably worse.
>
>
> P.S.: I think my mail provider marks outgoing mails with too many links as
> SPAM, so I need to make the URLs invisible, and I believe replacing the t's
> in h t t p with plus signs does the trick...
>
>
> >
> >
> > All the best,
> >
> > Frank
> > Frantisek (Frank) Borsik
> >
> > h++ps://www.linkedin.com/in/frantisekborsik
> > Signal, Telegram, WhatsApp: +421919416714
> > iMessage, mobile: +420775230885
> > Skype: casioa5302ca
> > frantisek.borsik at gmail.com
> >
> >
> > On Sun, 10 Dec 2023 at 7:22 PM, Robert McMahon via Nnagain <
> nnagain at lists.bufferbloat.net> wrote:
> > Sorry, this isn't a very good technical analysis. It's a push agenda for
> AQM. I get that many people's egos are tied to their belief that my
> algorithm came down from God himself. It's not true though.
> >
> >
> > Bob
> > On Dec 10, 2023, at 3:12 AM, Sauli Kiviranta via Nnagain <
> nnagain at lists.bufferbloat.net> wrote:
> > I find it alarming for the future of internet that there is a trend to
> > use elbowing techniques to squeeze metrics out at the expense of all
> > other flows. We know that when nobody plays fair the arms race ends
> > badly.
> >
> > Best regards,
> > Sauli
> >
> > On 12/10/23, Frantisek Borsik via Nnagain <nnagain at lists.bufferbloat.net>
> wrote:
> >  Well, to be completely honest, I would say its about general public,
> really
> >  - it’s an article in The Verge :-)
> >
> >  But yeah. Here’s something they should address:
> >
> >  h++ps://github.com/heistp/l4s-tests#key-findings
> >
> >  In general - a potential harm to innocent bystanders is a biggest L4S
> >  problem:
> >  h++ps://
> www.linkedin.com/posts/frantisekborsik_jonathanmorton-l4s-ietf118-activity-7128317873571176448-GWAX
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >  All the best,
> >
> >  Frank
> >  Frantisek (Frank) Borsik
> >
> >  h++ps://www.linkedin.com/in/frantisekborsik
> >  Signal, Telegram, WhatsApp: +421919416714
> >  iMessage, mobile: +420775230885
> >  Skype: casioa5302ca
> >  frantisek.borsik at gmail.com
> >
> >
> >  On Sun, 10 Dec 2023 at 5:48 AM, Matt Mathis via Nnagain <
> >  nnagain at lists.bufferbloat.net> wrote:
> >
> >  About L4S
> >
> >  h++ps://
> www.theverge.com/23655762/l4s-internet-apple-comcast-latency-speed-bandwidth
> >
> >  It says something about their target audience that they feel they need
> to
> >  explain bytes vs bits.
> >
> >  Thanks,
> >  --MM--
> >  Evil is defined by mortals who think they know "The Truth" and use force
> >  to apply it to others.
> >
> >  Matt Mathis  (Email is best)
> >  Home & mobile: 412-654-7529 please leave a message if you must call.
> >
> >
> >  Nnagain mailing list
> >  Nnagain at lists.bufferbloat.net
> >  h++ps://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/nnagain
> >
> >
> >
> > Nnagain mailing list
> > Nnagain at lists.bufferbloat.net
> > h++ps://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/nnagain
> > _______________________________________________
> > Nnagain mailing list
> > Nnagain at lists.bufferbloat.net
> > h++ps://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/nnagain
> > _______________________________________________
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> > Nnagain at lists.bufferbloat.net
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>
>
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