[Bloat] [LibreQoS] Fwd: [New post] More Mapping Drama

Wed May 3 14:28:34 EDT 2023

Dear Brian:

Do you think you could give the NTIA and BEAD folk a little advice as to
how to go about improving rural american access?

On Wed, Apr 12, 2023 at 8:33 AM Brian Munyao Longwe <blongwe at gmail.com>
wrote:

> Thanks for sharing,
>
> Are you aware that after receiving ISOC training at the INET 99 networking
> workshop for developing countries in San Jose way back in 1999 - I went
> back to my (then) home country, Kenya, and built/started KIXP with
> assistance from Cisco and hands on support from Barry Raveendran Greene
> (formerly Cisco)?
>
> Thereafter and for next 8 odd years as GM for AfrISPA (African ISP
> Association) I turned up or helped turn up IXPs in about 12 other African
> countries - mostly funded under a project called “Catalysing Access to ICTs
> in Africa” funded by UKs DFID, Canada’s IDRC and others.
>
> I even did a couple of trips with Bill Woodcock in Africa and Asia.
>
> Ta,
>
> Brian
>
> On Wed, 12 Apr 2023 at 4:28 PM, Dave Taht via LibreQoS <
> libreqos at lists.bufferbloat.net> wrote:
>
>> I would like to bring back the IXP concepts in the USA.
>>
>> ---------- Forwarded message ---------
>> From: Jane Coffin <jane at connecthumanity.fund>
>> Date: Tue, Apr 11, 2023 at 10:23 AM
>> Subject: Re: [New post] More Mapping Drama
>> To: Garland McCoy <garland.mccoy at pagcasa.org>
>> Cc: Dave Taht <dave.taht at gmail.com>, National Broadband Mapping
>> Coalition <bbcoalition at marconisociety.org>, Bill Woodcock <woody at pch.net>
>>
>>
>> Actually.  Bill is one of the IXP masters, but....
>>
>>  ISOC has done a helluva lot of IXP build around the world, and I would
>> tip my hat to Michuki Mwangi (ISOC) and Nishal Goburdhan (PCH) along with
>> some folks at Netnod (Swedish exchange), and INEX (Irish exchange - used
>> those cats for training and they came up with the brilliant app - IXP
>> Manager).  I also would tag Philip Smith (NSRC and father of BGP and LINX),
>> Christian O'Flaherty - one of my partners in crime on IXP build, Hisham
>> Ibrahim (formerly with AfriNIC and now with RIPE NCC), Jan Zorz (was with
>> ISOC now a v6 evangelist), Karen Rose (formerly with ISOC), Naveed Haq and
>> Aftab Siddiqui (of ISOC), Brent McIntosh (Grenada), and Bevil Wooding
>> (formerly with PCH and now with ARIN).  I also would note the amazing work
>> that the IXP Associations have done around the planet, and note the Peering
>> Forums - PIFs that ISOC with partners like PCH created around the world -
>> except for the US.  AfPIF - the African Peering and Interconnection Forum
>> and CarPIF - the Caribbean Peering and Interconnection Forum, BKNIX, the
>> Bangkok Peering forum.  One can't talk about IXPs without a nod to NOGs
>> (Network Operator Groups).  The US had the first NOG - NANOG, and they have
>> taken off from there.  ISOC uses NOGs, and PIFs, and IXPs, and the RIRs to
>> promote Mutually Agreed Norms for Routing Security (MANRS)...great
>> initiative and I would urge anyone looking at secure routing to chat with
>> them and the RIRs (RPKI etc).
>>
>> Note that ISOC is the only org that has put out multiple studies that
>> show over time and via snapshots the importance of IXPs to build your local
>> Internet, increase resilience, allow for redundancy of nets at the local
>> level, and has tracked how much latency diminishes, performance increases,
>> and how quickly prices drop.
>>
>> Big Telcos in the US nearly killed bottom-up carrier neutral IXPs.  Thank
>> goodness for ISOC, the RIRs (LACNIC, AfriNIC, ARIN, APNIC, and RIPE NCC),
>> ICANN, IETF to a degree, NSRC, PCH, the NOGs, and the Peering Fora for
>> keeping network training, the importance of diverse peering ecosystems, and
>> the IXPs that are making a resurgence in the US.
>>
>> It takes a village.  A well-trained diverse village.
>>
>> On Mon, Apr 10, 2023 at 9:51 AM Garland McCoy <garland.mccoy at pagcasa.org>
>> wrote:
>>
>>>  Dave, I am sure Jane would agree that THE global master IXP builder is
>>> Bill Woodcock and his colleagues at Packet Clearing House (
>>> https://www.pch.net/) Bill has been doing this for decades (and decades
>>> and decades). I have cced him in so you can circle the wagons. If by any
>>> chance you want SECURE Edges as part of your IXP deployment you should look
>>> up Onclave Networks (see link below)
>>>
>>>  https://onclavenetworks.com/
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Apr 10, 2023, at 9:40 AM, Jane Coffin <jane at connecthumanity.fund>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Dave -
>>>
>>> On IXPs - I can give you a lot of global examples.  On the US - less
>>> so.  One of the founders of SF-MIX is at Connect Humanity and is talking to
>>> some folks about neutral/bottom-up IXPs - ISOC style, IFX, Euro-IX, Af-IX,
>>> LAC-IX, and AP-IX style.
>>>
>>> ISOC also has some excellent reports that show the impact of IXPs in
>>> countries - cheaper, better, faster local connectivity - and local
>>> resiliency and redundancy vs tromboning traffic that benefits
>>> transit/transport vs local fabric.
>>>
>>> Jane
>>>
>>> On Mon, Apr 10, 2023 at 9:08 AM Dave Taht <dave.taht at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> While I frequently do not agree with doug´s blog, he does make for
>>>> interesting reading, and oy! a bill to slow things down further... :(
>>>>
>>>> I am also curious as to the state of the cybergeography these days.
>>>> (anyone remember this old project?
>>>>
>>>> https://web.archive.org/web/20060218123215/http://www.cybergeography.org/atlas/topology.html
>>>> )
>>>>
>>>> I have been researching the state of the IXPs nowadays, and kind of
>>>> wondering if there was a noticeable difference in service quality between
>>>> cities with IXPs and those without. Anyone?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> https://www.pch.net/ixp/summary_growth_by_country#!mt-sort=ixp_current%2Cdesc!mt-pivot=ixp_current
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ---------- Forwarded message ---------
>>>> From: POTs and PANs <donotreply at wordpress.com>
>>>> Date: Mon, Apr 10, 2023 at 4:35 AM
>>>> Subject: [New post] More Mapping Drama
>>>> To: <dave.taht at gmail.com>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> [image: Site logo image] Doug Dawson, CCG Consulting posted: "As if
>>>> the federal mapping process needed more drama, Senator Jacky Rosen
>>>> (Dem-Nevada) and John Thune (Rep-South Dakota) have introduced bill S.1162
>>>> that would “ensure that broadband maps are accurate before funds are
>>>> allocated under the Broadband Equity, " POTs and PANs
>>>> <https://potsandpansbyccg.com/> More Mapping Drama
>>>> <https://public-api.wordpress.com/bar/?stat=groovemails-events&bin=wpcom_email_click&redirect_to=https%3A%2F%2Fpotsandpansbyccg.com%2F2023%2F04%2F10%2Fmore-mapping-drama%2F&sr=0&signature=cb143a1d8898a71681aebd52278c0bf3&blog_id=49312101&user=97642389&_e=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&_z=z>
>>>>
>>>> Doug Dawson, CCG Consulting
>>>> Apr 10
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> <https://potsandpansbyccg.com/2022/12/19/the-individual-fcc-map-challenge/fcc-broadband-map/#main>As
>>>> if the federal mapping process needed more drama, Senator Jacky Rosen
>>>> (Dem-Nevada) and John Thune (Rep-South Dakota) have introduced bill S.1162
>>>> that would “ensure that broadband maps are accurate before funds are
>>>> allocated under the Broadband Equity, Access, and Deployment Program based
>>>> on those maps”.
>>>>
>>>> If this law is enacted, the distribution of most of the BEAD grant
>>>> funds to States would be delayed by at least six months, probably longer.
>>>> The NTIA has already said that it intends to announce the allocation of the
>>>> $42.5 billion in grants to the states on June 30. The funds are supposed to
>>>> be allocated using the best count of unserved and underserved locations in
>>>> each state on that date. Unserved locations are those that can’t buy
>>>> broadband of at least 25/3 Mbps. Underserved locations are those unable to
>>>> buy broadband with speeds of at least 100/20 Mbps.
>>>>
>>>> To add to the story, FCC Commissioner Jessica Rosenworcel recently
>>>> announced that the FCC has largely completed the broadband map updates.
>>>> That announcement surprised the folks in the industry who have been working
>>>> with the map data, since everybody I talk to is still seeing a lot of
>>>> inaccuracies in the maps.
>>>>
>>>> To the FCC’s credit, its vendor CostQuest has been processing thousands
>>>> of individual challenges to the maps daily and has addressed 600 bulk
>>>> challenges that have been filed by States, counties, and other local
>>>> government entities. In making the announcement, Rosenworcel said that the
>>>> new map has added over one million new locations to the broadband map –
>>>> homes and businesses that were missed in the creation of the first version
>>>> of the map last fall.
>>>>
>>>> But the FCC map has two important components that must be correct for
>>>> the overall maps to be correct. The first is the mapping fabric that is
>>>> supposed to identify every location in the country that is a potential
>>>> broadband customer. I view this as a nearly impossible task. The US Census
>>>> spends many billions every ten years to identify the addresses of residents
>>>> and businesses in the country. CostQuest tried to duplicate the same thing
>>>> on a much smaller budget and with the time pressure of the maps being used
>>>> to allocate these grants. It’s challenging to count potential broadband
>>>> customers. I wrote a blog last year
>>>> <https://potsandpansbyccg.com/2022/09/19/the-fcc-mapping-fabric/> that
>>>> outlined a few of the dozens of issues that must be addressed to get an
>>>> accurate map. It’s hard to think that CostQuest somehow figured out all of
>>>> these complicated questions in the last six months.
>>>>
>>>> Even if the fabric is much improved, the more important issue is that
>>>> the accuracy of the broadband map is reliant on two issues that are
>>>> reported by ISPs – the coverage area where an ISP should be able to connect
>>>> a new customer within ten days of a request, and the broadband speeds that
>>>> are available to a home or business at each location.
>>>>
>>>> ISPs are pretty much free to claim whatever they want. While there has
>>>> been a lot of work done to challenge the fabric and the location of
>>>> possible customers – it’s a lot harder to challenge the coverage claims of
>>>> specific ISPs. A true challenge would require many millions of individual
>>>> challenges about the broadband that is available at each home.
>>>>
>>>> Just consider my own home. The national broadband map says there are
>>>> ten ISPs available at my address. Several I’ve never heard of, and I’m
>>>> willing to bet that at least a few of them can’t serve me – but since I’m
>>>> already buying broadband from an ISP, I can’t think of any reason that
>>>> would lead me to challenge the claims of the ISPs I’m not using. The FCC
>>>> thinks that the challenge process will somehow fix the coverage issue – I
>>>> can’t imagine that more than a tiny fraction of folks are ever going to
>>>> care enough to go through the FCC map challenge process – or even know that
>>>> the broadband map exists.
>>>>
>>>> The FCC mapping has also not yet figured out how to come to grips with
>>>> broadband coverage claimed by wireless ISPs. It’s not hard looking through
>>>> the FCC data to find numerous WISPs that claim large coverage areas. In
>>>> real life, the availability of a wireless connection is complicated. The
>>>> FCC reporting is in the process of requiring wireless carriers to report
>>>> using a ‘heat map’ that shows the strength of the wireless signal at
>>>> various distances from each individual radio. But even these heat maps
>>>> won’t tell the full story. WISPs are sometimes able to find ways to serve
>>>> customers that are not within easy reach of a tower. But just like with
>>>> cellphone coverage, there are usually plenty of dead zones around a radio
>>>> that can’t be reached but that will still be claimed on a heat map - heat
>>>> maps are nothing more than a rough approximation of actual coverage. It’s
>>>> hard to imagine that wireless coverage areas will ever be fully accurate.
>>>>
>>>> DSL coverage over telephone copper is equally impossible to map
>>>> correctly, and there are still places where DSL is claimed but which can't
>>>> be served.
>>>>
>>>> Broadband speeds are even harder to challenge. Under the FCC mapping
>>>> rules, ISPs are allowed to claim marketing speeds. If an ISP markets
>>>> broadband as capable of 100/20 Mbps, they can claim that speed on the
>>>> broadband map. It doesn’t matter if the actual broadband delivered is only
>>>> a fraction of that speed. There are so many factors that affect broadband
>>>> speeds that the maps will never accurately depict the speeds folks can
>>>> really buy. It’s amazingly disingenuous for the FCC to say the maps are
>>>> accurate. The best we could ever hope for is that the maps will be better
>>>> if, and only if ISPs scrupulously follow the reporting rules – but nobody
>>>> thinks that is going to happen.
>>>>
>>>> I understand the frustration of the Senators who are suggesting this
>>>> legislation. But I also think that we’ll never get an accurate set of maps.
>>>> Don’t forget that Congress created the requirement to use the maps to
>>>> allocate the BEAD grant dollars. Grant funding could have been done in
>>>> other ways that didn't relay on the maps. I don’t think it’s going to make
>>>> much difference if we delay six months, a year, or four years – the maps
>>>> are going to remain consistently inconsistent.
>>>> Comment
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>>>> Automattic, Inc. - 60 29th St. #343, San Francisco, CA 94110
>>>> <https://www.google.com/maps/search/60+29th+St.+%23343,+San+Francisco,+CA+94110?entry=gmail&source=g>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> AMA March 31:
>>>> https://www.broadband.io/c/broadband-grant-events/dave-taht
>>>> Dave Täht CEO, TekLibre, LLC
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
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>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send
>>>> an email to BBCoalition+unsubscribe at marconisociety.org.
>>>> To view this discussion on the web visit
>>>> https://groups.google.com/a/marconisociety.org/d/msgid/BBCoalition/CAA93jw7BmWMw-yeovaQsC-sK2Ufdzp3Dnv-hT4hdqBGoOwjFxg%40mail.gmail.com
>>>> <https://groups.google.com/a/marconisociety.org/d/msgid/BBCoalition/CAA93jw7BmWMw-yeovaQsC-sK2Ufdzp3Dnv-hT4hdqBGoOwjFxg%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>
>>>> .
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>>>
>>> --
>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
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>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send
>>> an email to BBCoalition+unsubscribe at marconisociety.org.
>>> To view this discussion on the web visit
>>> https://groups.google.com/a/marconisociety.org/d/msgid/BBCoalition/CAAk_8j0vm0Gsj%3DmOP0LLw3C-kUhk8knZaKK-BPXPSB4B8e1vnQ%40mail.gmail.com
>>> <https://groups.google.com/a/marconisociety.org/d/msgid/BBCoalition/CAAk_8j0vm0Gsj%3DmOP0LLw3C-kUhk8knZaKK-BPXPSB4B8e1vnQ%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>
>>> .
>>>
>>>
>>> Garland T. McCoy | Co-Founder & Executive Director | PAgCASA (Precision
>>> Ag
>>> Connectivity & Accuracy Stakeholder Alliance) | www.pagcasa.org
>>> <http://www.pagcasa.org>  | garland.mccoy at pagcasa.org
>>> <mailto:garland.mccoy at pagcasa.org> | Adjunct Professor,
>>> Syracuse University
>>> iSchool | gmccoy at syr.edu <mailto:gmccoy at syr.edu>  | 202-906-0654
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>> --
>> AMA March 31: https://www.broadband.io/c/broadband-grant-events/dave-taht
>> Dave Täht CEO, TekLibre, LLC
>> _______________________________________________
>> LibreQoS mailing list
>> LibreQoS at lists.bufferbloat.net
>> https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/libreqos
>>
>

-- 
Podcast:
https://www.linkedin.com/feed/update/urn:li:activity:7058793910227111937/
Dave Täht CSO, LibreQos
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