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<div class="moz-cite-prefix">Do you think that "RTT to San
Francisco" is a clear enough, predictable enough measure that we
can use it in the context of non-technical users and obfuscating
salescritters?<br>
<br>
--dave<br>
who vaguely watched RTT to Charlottetown PEI, Vancouver and
Washington DC in a previous life<br>
<br>
<br>
On 04/12/17 02:59 PM, <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:dpreed@reed.com">dpreed@reed.com</a> wrote:<br>
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<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:1512417597.091724124@apps.rackspace.com"><font
face="verdana" size="2">
<p style="margin:0;padding:0;font-family: verdana; font-size:
10pt; word-wrap: break-word;">I suggest we stop talking about
throughput, which has been the mistaken idea about networking
for 30-40 years.</p>
<p style="margin:0;padding:0;font-family: verdana; font-size:
10pt; word-wrap: break-word;"> </p>
<p style="margin:0;padding:0;font-family: verdana; font-size:
10pt; word-wrap: break-word;">Almost all networking ends up
being about end-to-end response time in a multiplexed system.</p>
<p style="margin:0;padding:0;font-family: verdana; font-size:
10pt; word-wrap: break-word;"> </p>
<p style="margin:0;padding:0;font-family: verdana; font-size:
10pt; word-wrap: break-word;">Or put another way: "It's the
Latency, Stupid".</p>
<p style="margin:0;padding:0;font-family: verdana; font-size:
10pt; word-wrap: break-word;"> </p>
<p style="margin:0;padding:0;font-family: verdana; font-size:
10pt; word-wrap: break-word;">I get (and have come to expect)
27 msec. RTT's under significant load, from Boston suburb to
Sunnyvale, CA.</p>
<p style="margin:0;padding:0;font-family: verdana; font-size:
10pt; word-wrap: break-word;"> </p>
<p style="margin:0;padding:0;font-family: verdana; font-size:
10pt; word-wrap: break-word;">I get 2 microsecond RTT's within
my house (using 10 GigE).</p>
<p style="margin:0;padding:0;font-family: verdana; font-size:
10pt; word-wrap: break-word;"> </p>
<p style="margin:0;padding:0;font-family: verdana; font-size:
10pt; word-wrap: break-word;">What will we expect tomorrow?</p>
<p style="margin:0;padding:0;font-family: verdana; font-size:
10pt; word-wrap: break-word;"> </p>
<p style="margin:0;padding:0;font-family: verdana; font-size:
10pt; word-wrap: break-word;">This is related to Bufferbloat,
because queueing delay is just not a good thing in these
contexts - contexts where Latency Matters. We provision
multiplexed networks based on "peak capacity" never being
reached.</p>
<p style="margin:0;padding:0;font-family: verdana; font-size:
10pt; word-wrap: break-word;"> </p>
<p style="margin:0;padding:0;font-family: verdana; font-size:
10pt; word-wrap: break-word;">Consequently, 1 Gig to the home
is "table stakes". And in DOCSIS 3.1 deployments that is what
is being delivered, cheap, today.</p>
<p style="margin:0;padding:0;font-family: verdana; font-size:
10pt; word-wrap: break-word;"> </p>
<p style="margin:0;padding:0;font-family: verdana; font-size:
10pt; word-wrap: break-word;">And 10 Gig within the home is
becoming "table stakes", especially for applications that need
quick response to human interaction.</p>
<p style="margin:0;padding:0;font-family: verdana; font-size:
10pt; word-wrap: break-word;"> </p>
<p style="margin:0;padding:0;font-family: verdana; font-size:
10pt; word-wrap: break-word;">1 NvME drive already delivers
around 11 Gb/sec at its interface. That's what is needed in
the network to "impedance match".</p>
<p style="margin:0;padding:0;font-family: verdana; font-size:
10pt; word-wrap: break-word;"> </p>
<p style="margin:0;padding:0;font-family: verdana; font-size:
10pt; word-wrap: break-word;">802.11ax already gives around 10
Gb/sec. wireless (and will be on the market soon).</p>
<p style="margin:0;padding:0;font-family: verdana; font-size:
10pt; word-wrap: break-word;"> </p>
<p style="margin:0;padding:0;font-family: verdana; font-size:
10pt; word-wrap: break-word;">The folks who think that having
1 Gb/sec to the home would only be important if you had to
transfer at that rate 8 hours a day are just not thinking
clearly about what "responsiveness" means.</p>
<p style="margin:0;padding:0;font-family: verdana; font-size:
10pt; word-wrap: break-word;"> </p>
<p style="margin:0;padding:0;font-family: verdana; font-size:
10pt; word-wrap: break-word;">For a different angle on this,
think about what the desirable "channel change time" is if a
company like Netflix were covering all the football (I mean
US's soccer) games in the world. You'd like to fill the
"buffer" in 100 msec. so channel change to some new channel is
responsive. 100 msec. of 4K sports, which you are watching in
"real time" needs to be buffered, and you want no more than a
second or two of delay from camera to your screen. So
buffering up 1 second of a newly selected 4 K video stream in
100 msec. on demand is why you need such speeds. Do the math.</p>
<p style="margin:0;padding:0;font-family: verdana; font-size:
10pt; word-wrap: break-word;"> </p>
<p style="margin:0;padding:0;font-family: verdana; font-size:
10pt; word-wrap: break-word;">VR sports coverage - even
moreso.</p>
<p style="margin:0;padding:0;font-family: verdana; font-size:
10pt; word-wrap: break-word;"> </p>
<p style="margin:0;padding:0;font-family: verdana; font-size:
10pt; word-wrap: break-word;"> </p>
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<p style="margin:0;padding:0;font-family: verdana; font-size:
10pt; word-wrap: break-word;"><br>
<br>
On Monday, December 4, 2017 7:44am, "Mikael Abrahamsson"
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:swmike@swm.pp.se"><swmike@swm.pp.se></a> said:<br>
<br>
</p>
<div id="SafeStyles1512416637">
<p style="margin:0;padding:0;font-family: verdana; font-size:
10pt; word-wrap: break-word;">> On Mon, 4 Dec 2017, Pedro
Tumusok wrote:<br>
> <br>
> > Looking at chipsets coming/just arrived from the
chipset vendors, I think<br>
> > we will see CPE with 10G SFP+ and 802.11ax Q3/Q4
this year.<br>
> > Price is of course a bit steeper than the 15USD
USB DSL modem :P, but<br>
> > probably fits nicely for the SMB segment.<br>
> <br>
>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://kb.netgear.com/31408/What-SFP-modules-are-compatible-with-my-Nighthawk-X10-R9000-router">https://kb.netgear.com/31408/What-SFP-modules-are-compatible-with-my-Nighthawk-X10-R9000-router</a><br>
> <br>
> This has been available for a while now. Only use-case
I see for it is<br>
> Comcast 2 gigabit/s service, that's the only one I know
of that would fit<br>
> this product (since it has no downlink 10GE ports).<br>
> <br>
> --<br>
> Mikael Abrahamsson email: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:swmike@swm.pp.se">swmike@swm.pp.se</a><br>
> _______________________________________________<br>
> Cerowrt-devel mailing list<br>
> <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:Cerowrt-devel@lists.bufferbloat.net">Cerowrt-devel@lists.bufferbloat.net</a><br>
> <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/cerowrt-devel">https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/cerowrt-devel</a><br>
> </p>
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<p><br>
</p>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">--
David Collier-Brown, | Always do right. This will gratify
System Programmer and Author | some people and astonish the rest
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:davecb@spamcop.net">davecb@spamcop.net</a> | -- Mark Twain
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