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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:14.0pt">Great news, Matt! If I may make a recommendation, IMO a standalone working latency test would have greater utility than integrating such a measurement into an existing test & so it may have the opportunity
of more widespread usage.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:14.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:14.0pt">JL<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:14.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">From: </span></b><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">Bloat <bloat-bounces@lists.bufferbloat.net> on behalf of Matt Mathis via Bloat <bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net><br>
<b>Reply-To: </b>Matt Mathis <mattmathis@google.com><br>
<b>Date: </b>Tuesday, August 10, 2021 at 00:52<br>
<b>To: </b>"dave.collier-brown@indexexchange.com" <dave.collier-brown@indexexchange.com><br>
<b>Cc: </b>bloat <bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net><br>
<b>Subject: </b>Re: [Bloat] [Rpm] Airbnb<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">I am part of the M-Lab team.<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">For years we published a "jitter" metric that I considered to be bogus, basically max_rtt - min_rtt, (which were builtin Web100 instruments).<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">In 2019, we transitioned from web100 to "standard" linux tcp_info, which does not capture max_rtt. Since the web100 jitter was viewed as bogus, we did not attempt to reconstruct it, although we could have. Designing and implementing
a new latency metric was on my todo list from the beginning of that transition, but chronically preempted by more pressing problems.<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">It finally made it to the top of my queue which is why I am suddenly not lurking here and the new rpm list. I was very happy to see the Apple responsiveness metric, and realized that M-Lab can implement a TCP version of it, that can be
computed both in real time on future tests and retroactively over archived tests collected over the last 12 years.<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">This quick paper might be of interest: <a href="https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/docs.google.com/document/d/1HkeJTgwLdbbdHe0dF9SWrpr8Vt7ngnovLpdDTScuUtk/edit*heading=h.sy6m01i6oa9a__;Iw!!CQl3mcHX2A!WTavRmT2GnSUSVpvPCPdmBuNtOJI_zDP1WOHE-jy8tMiXBE-CxDospZUjNote1PXn0DhWQ$"><b><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">Preliminary
Longitudinal Study of Internet Responsiveness</span></b></a><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">. <br clear="all">
<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Thanks,<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">--MM--<br>
The best way to predict the future is to create it. - Alan Kay<br>
<br>
We must not tolerate intolerance;<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"> however our response must be carefully measured: <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"> too strong would be hypocritical and risks spiraling out of control;<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"> too weak risks being mistaken for tacit approval.<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">On Mon, Aug 9, 2021 at 5:27 PM Dave Collier-Brown <<a href="mailto:dave.collier-brown@indexexchange.com">dave.collier-brown@indexexchange.com</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p>Knowing programmers, I'd more likely assume latency when it's easiest to measure. At a guess, either<o:p></o:p></p>
<ul type="disc">
<li class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1">
average of upload or download<o:p></o:p></li><li class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1">
average of download (as it comes first)<o:p></o:p></li></ul>
<p>--dave (call me "Wally" (:-)) c-b<o:p></o:p></p>
<p><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p>On 2021-08-09 4:24 p.m., Jonathan Morton wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
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<pre>On 9 Aug, 2021, at 10:25 pm, Dave Collier-Brown <a href="mailto:dave.collier-brown@indexexchange.com" target="_blank"><dave.collier-brown@indexexchange.com></a> wrote:<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre>My run of it reported latency, but without any qualifiers...<o:p></o:p></pre>
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<pre>One would reasonable assume that's idle latency, then.<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre> - Jonathan Morton<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>_______________________________________________<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>Bloat mailing list<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><a href="mailto:Bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net" target="_blank">Bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
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<pre>-- <o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>David Collier-Brown, | Always do right. This will gratify<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>System Programmer and Author | some people and astonish the rest<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><a href="mailto:dave.collier-brown@indexexchange.com" target="_blank">dave.collier-brown@indexexchange.com</a> | -- Mark Twain<o:p></o:p></pre>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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