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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>OK, so now we are all showing our age! And
yes, the lexicon has become really muddied … generally the result of
someone who doesn’t know (and thinking they do </span></font><font
size=2 color=navy face=Wingdings><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
Wingdings;color:navy'>J</span></font><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>), speaking the loudest
and the longest and whaddaya know, all of a sudden we have “speed tests”
and “capacity tests”, when really what is happening is that “data/information/communication
rate” is being “measured/estimated”. Neither “speed”
nor “capacity” is being “tested”. Oh, for the good ole
days when … </span></font><font size=2 color=navy face=Wingdings><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Wingdings;color:navy'>J</span></font><font
size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:navy'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
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<p class=MsoNormal><b><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font size=2
face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'> Starlink [mailto:starlink-bounces@lists.bufferbloat.net]
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>On Behalf Of </span></b><st1:PersonName
w:st="on">Ulrich Speidel</st1:PersonName> via Starlink<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Wednesday, January 4, 2023
1:17 PM<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> jf@jonathanfoulkes.com;
rjmcmahon<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Cc:</span></b> Dave Taht via Starlink; bloat<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> Re: [Starlink] [Rpm] the
grinch meets cloudflare's christmas present</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=black face=Calibri><span
style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black;background:white'>The
use of the term "speed" in communications used to be restricted to
the speed of light (or whatever propagation speed one happened to be dealing
with. Everything else was a "rate". Maybe I'm old-fashioned but I
think talking about "speed tests" muddies the waters rather a lot.</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=black face=Calibri><span
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<p class=MsoNormal><span class=moz-txt-tag><font size=1 face=Tahoma><span
style='font-size:8.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'>-- </span></font></span><font
size=1 face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:8.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'><br>
**************************************************************** <br>
Dr. <st1:PersonName w:st="on">Ulrich Speidel</st1:PersonName> <br>
<br>
Department of Computer Science <br>
<br>
Room 303S.594<br>
Ph: (+64-9)-373-7599 ext. 85282 <br>
<br>
The University of Auckland <br>
<a href="mailto:u.speidel@auckland.ac.nz"
title="mailto:u.speidel@auckland.ac.nz">u.speidel@auckland.ac.nz</a><br>
<a href="http://www.cs.auckland.ac.nz/%7Eulrich/">http://www.cs.auckland.ac.nz/~ulrich/</a><br>
**************************************************************** <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><b><font size=2 color=black face=Calibri><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black;font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font
size=2 color=black face=Calibri><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;
color:black'> Starlink <starlink-bounces@lists.bufferbloat.net> on behalf
of rjmcmahon via Starlink <starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net><br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Thursday, January 5, 2023
9:02 AM<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> jf@jonathanfoulkes.com
<jf@jonathanfoulkes.com><br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Cc:</span></b> Cake List <cake@lists.bufferbloat.net>;
IETF IPPM WG <ippm@ietf.org>; libreqos
<libreqos@lists.bufferbloat.net>; Dave Taht via Starlink
<starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net>; Rpm <rpm@lists.bufferbloat.net>;
bloat <bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net><br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> Re: [Starlink] [Rpm] the
grinch meets cloudflare's christmas present</span></font> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>Curious to why people keep calling capacity tests speed tests? A semi
at <br>
55 mph isn't faster than a porsche at 141 mph because its load volume is <br>
larger.<br>
<br>
Bob<br>
> HNY Dave and all the rest,<br>
> <br>
> Great to see yet another capacity test add latency metrics to the<br>
> results. This one looks like a good start.<br>
> <br>
> Results from my Windstream DOCSIS 3.1 line (3.1 on download only, up<br>
> is 3.0) Gigabit down / 35Mbps up provisioning. Using an IQrouter Pro<br>
> (an i5 x86) with Cake set for 710/31 as this ISP can’t deliver<br>
> reliable low-latency unless you shave a good bit off the targets. My<br>
> local loop is pretty congested.<br>
> <br>
> Here’s the latest Cloudflare test:<br>
> <br>
> <br>
> <br>
> <br>
> And an Ookla test run just afterward:<br>
> <br>
> <br>
> <br>
> <br>
> They are definitely both in the ballpark and correspond to other tests<br>
> run from the router itself or my (wired) MacBook Pro.<br>
> <br>
> Cheers,<br>
> <br>
> Jonathan<br>
> <br>
> <br>
>> On Jan 4, 2023, at 12:26 PM, Dave Taht via Rpm <br>
>> <rpm@lists.bufferbloat.net> wrote:<br>
>> <br>
>> Please try the new, the shiny, the really wonderful test here:<br>
>> <a href="https://speed.cloudflare.com">https://speed.cloudflare.com/</a><br>
>> <br>
>> I would really appreciate some independent verification of<br>
>> measurements using this tool. In my brief experiments it appears - as<br>
>> all the commercial tools to date - to dramatically understate the<br>
>> bufferbloat, on my LTE, (and my starlink terminal is out being<br>
>> hacked^H^H^H^H^H^Hworked on, so I can't measure that)<br>
>> <br>
>> My test of their test reports 223ms 5G latency under load , where<br>
>> flent reports over 2seconds. See comparison attached.<br>
>> <br>
>> My guess is that this otherwise lovely new tool, like too many,<br>
>> doesn't run for long enough. Admittedly, most web objects (their<br>
>> target market) are small, and so long as they remain small and not<br>
>> heavily pipelined this test is a very good start... but I'm pretty<br>
>> sure cloudflare is used for bigger uploads and downloads than that.<br>
>> There's no way to change the test to run longer either.<br>
>> <br>
>> I'd love to get some results from other networks (compared as usual to<br>
>> flent), especially ones with cake on it. I'd love to know if they<br>
>> measured more minimum rtts that can be obtained with fq_codel or cake,<br>
>> correctly.<br>
>> <br>
>> Love Always,<br>
>> The Grinch<br>
>> <br>
>> --<br>
>> This song goes out to all the folk that thought Stadia would work:<br>
>> <a
href="https://www.linkedin.com/posts/dtaht_the-mushroom-song-activity-6981366665607352320-FXtz">https://www.linkedin.com/posts/dtaht_the-mushroom-song-activity-6981366665607352320-FXtz</a><br>
>> Dave Täht CEO, TekLibre, LLC<br>
>>
<image.png><tcp_nup-2023-01-04T090937.211620.LTE.flent.gz>_______________________________________________<br>
>> Rpm mailing list<br>
>> Rpm@lists.bufferbloat.net<br>
>> <a href="https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/rpm">https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/rpm</a><br>
> <br>
> <br>
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