[Cake] [Bloat] On an org and on joining the software patent non-aggression community
luca.dionisi at gmail.com
Sat Oct 31 10:45:53 EDT 2015
I think that joining OIN is one of the best move, as of today, to ensure
protection against patent trolls. I say, go for it.
On Sat, Oct 31, 2015 at 2:20 PM, Dave Taht <dave.taht at gmail.com> wrote:
> Over the last 5 years or so the open inventions network has grown by
> leaps and bounds.
> Here in the bufferbloat pits... instead of joining that, we worked
> really hard to make sure codel went out into the public domain
> unpatented - for anyone to use, and so far, so good on that....
> But there are so many IP landmines ahead (and behind) that it makes
> sense for at least CeroWrt/make-wifi-fast to now join with a group
> like OIN for mutual defense against the trolls. I think. Maybe.
> Perhaps other groups like gargoyle or dd-wrt should also join, if they
> have not already.
> In particular, lots of lots of chip producers have joined OIN of late,
> and with probably lots of IP to share. To name just a few: Avago,
> Cavium, Cadence, Cavium, DSP, Mellanox, Sequans, VIA, LG, CalAmp, etc.
> If anyone here has any comments, positive or negative to make about
> oin, or this course of action, please discuss. I have no idea how
> companies like the Cisco's of the world, view OINs efforts.
> i would not mind securing and then assigning to an oin, a hw patent or
> two, myself. I think. A plaque on the wall would be nice, but I am
> still wrapping my head around the implications of how oin relates to
> hardware development....
> In other news, actually making cerowrt and/or bufferbloat.net a
> functioning org
> (non profit or for profit) is something on my mind - probably based in
> europe (sweden or denmark). If anyone here would like to discuss that
> (need a BOD,
> articles of incorporation, etc), drop me a line off-list, and if
> enough people are interested, we'll hash it out on some other list.
> ...Until now, I have generally taken care of paying all of cerowrt and
> bufferbloat.net's misc bills, out of teeny little teklibre. All else
> was provided by volunteers and orgs that cared enough to loan or
> donate resources, which was pretty awesome. Total cash donations to
> the whole five year effort from individuals was probably less than
> about 15k, prior to the fcc letter fundraiser, which raised ~8k.
> (I shudder to think of what the real costs were....)
> As a non-org...
> We benefited hugely from isc.org's hosting in particular, but they are
> now shutting down ( :( ) that, and google funded the openwrt build
> system for a while (grant now expired), and I survived on somewhat
> non-related contracts with comcast and google fiber and misc others
> and am still paying the last bills for the now-shut-down yurtlab, and
> maintaining the sole remaining machine in the google compute build
> cluster, (which I would like to spin up more fully as we try to get
> homenet and make-wifi-fast more widely tested) - and I'm based at the
> uni of karlstad in sweden presently...
> So a ton of stuff has to move around... the dns servers and and web
> servers have to move into the cloud soon...
> ...AND there may be a few grant opportunities arriving, that it would
> be saner to A - have another/real org for, along with B - have better
> housing against liabilities and new costs.
> Another option, instead of forming a new org, would be to join
> something like software for the public interest... get icei.org more
> alive... or.. nl.net.
> Nlnet.nl has the first small scale/small grant program/process (30k
> typically) for sustaining engineering that I have dealt with that I
> have ever seen work - it is fast and easy - as since august they been
> helping pay for jon's work on cake! - and they've been a joy to work
> with, as was iis before them.
> So A - forming an org, and B - getting protections for same - are
> conflated, but what I mostly wanted to get out of my mailbox this
> morning was the ideas behind OIN.
> Anyway, below is the conversation I'd had a few weeks back with one of
> the members of oin that convinced me we should look them over, and
> that maybe now would be a good time to get the house more in order.
> Dave Täht
> I just invested five years of my life to making wifi better. And,
> now... the FCC wants to make my work, illegal for people to install.
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: Valer Mischenko
> Date: Tue, Oct 13, 2015 at 8:34 AM
> Subject: Re: CeroWrt joining software patent non-aggression community
> To: Dave Taht <dave.taht at gmail.com>
> Nice to hear from you Dave,
> That's because virtually all the innovation is the legal land-mine,
> OIN exists and is doing it so well now. Not because we like patents,
> just the opposite. But because we realise that the community needs to
> show off its weapons to counteract aggression. A prayer cannot stop
> aggression, but showing off your weapons can often prevent it.
> You may see it as building a fortress in a hostile woods full of
> trolls. Everybody who does not want to be attacked and wants to be
> protected is welcome. With a weapon or without, big or small,
> commercial or non-profit. If one does not have a weapon, he brings a
> brick with him (his voice against aggression) which entrenches the
> walls of the fort. That's how we build it.
> Even if you are careful as hell in choosing the techniques, you cannot
> prevent them attack you. If you are in the market, your are exposed.
> That's a silly fact. With OIN we cannot change the world, but we try
> to build a mutual protection around innovation. For trolls it seems
> quite easy to threaten anyone - this is just righting a letter to an
> innovating collective, claiming any patent infringement and wait for
> fees. Defending yourself from them, on the other side, might be very
> difficult. This asymmetry is widely exploited by trolls. But if you
> have unconditional rights to use this ocean of intellectual property
> of OIN members, they can barely do anything to you, as you are covered
> to the best possible extent. Albeit not 100%, nobody can guarantee
> that of course.
> OIN provides unprecedented IP coverage. There is no analogue. Hundreds
> of thousand of patents around Linux plus additionally ~1000 patents of
> the OIN which you get the right to use forever. In your open source or
> proprietary products. And you keep this rights even if OIN or any or
> all members do not exist anymore. For you undersign the license, not a
> contract with OIN. The license may sound a bit legalistic, as it was
> compiled as "one-size-fits-all", from multinational to SME to startup
> to project, and to help the licensees to defend themselves as good as
> possible. What the license in essence says is the following:
> (1) All members give the project Interactive a royalty-free license
> for their Linux-related patents and patent applications.
> (2) In return the project gives a royalty-free license for any Linux
> system patents or patent applications (if any) to other members.
> (3) OIN gives the project a royalty-free license for the large
> portfolio of OIN's own defensive portfolio of patents and patent
> applications (~1000) which includes many other fields of open source
> next to Linux, like cloud, PHP, eCommerce, biometrics, apps building,
> embedded, etc.
> That's it in fact. You only share your Linux related patents with the
> rest of the community, if you have any. If not, that's OK too, you do
> not have to contribute anything in kind either.
> This might be a no brainer when discussing this with your mates. If
> necessary we can set up a conf call and talk about this together with
> other team members.
> Let me know if I can help with anything.
> Best regards, Valer.
> On Tue, Oct 13, 2015 at 2:03 PM, Dave Taht <dave.taht at gmail.com> wrote:
> > yes, I have thought about it. when cerowrt started you were a lot
> > smaller than this.
> > on the other hand, we worked really hard to make codel patent-free in
> > the first place, as we wanted a total non-agression pact on it, AND we
> > wanted people to be able to reuse the code in binary only distros,
> > etc. I also have some trust issues.
> > That said, yes, we'll join, after I discuss with the other
> > participants in the make-wifi-fast project. That portion of the field
> > is a legal land-mine, and while I have been careful to only use
> > techniques for which I believe sufficient prior art exists to
> > invalidate any patents we might cross, it would be nice to have a
> > higher scale of protection for the work.
> > On Tue, Oct 13, 2015 at 1:59 PM, Valer Mischenko
> > <vmischenko at openinventionnetwork.com> wrote:
> > > Hi Dave,
> > >
> > > My name is Valer. I am from Open Invention Network. We help protect
> > > Source and Linux-related technology from patent tension. Our goal is to
> > > build a non-aggression “standard of behavior” to protect the future of
> > > and Open Source. OIN was created with the support of Red Hat, IBM,
> > > NEC, Sony and Novell to foster a safe software patent environment for
> > > producers and users of Linux. Ever since we have expanded to lot of
> more of
> > > open source covering now 2335 packages.
> > >
> > > Today we have almost 1800 participants who have stepped forward to
> > > patent non-aggression through our community, ranging from OpenWrt to
> > > to Liferay to Mirantis to NGiNX to KDE to Mozilla to Python.
> > >
> > > CeroWrt, as many of our members, is an active contributor to the Linux
> > > kernel. Therefore we want to invite your project too to join our
> > > patent non-aggression pact.
> > >
> > > Our community is free to join. The only thing we want is a pledge that
> > > CeroWrt would never use patents aggressively against other
> participants in
> > > the broader definition of the Linux System. Of course it never will,
> but it
> > > can also be very useful for the users of the code and services of
> yours when
> > > they see the way to protect themselves from aggression through you
> > > part of our community.
> > >
> > > By joining OIN you will not only help building a no-fly-zone around
> > > and open source, it is pragmatic to secure your rights to OIN's and
> > > participants' intellectual property assets as part of a comprehensive
> > > mitigation strategy, as you will obtain free, unrestricted worldwide
> > > to all hundreds of thousands of Linux related patents of the OIN
> > > Plus around 1000 very basic OIN owned patents addressing various open
> > > technologies like cloud, PHP, eCommerce, biometrics, apps building,
> > > embedded, etc. You will get it all for free and forever, with the only
> > > obligation in return - not to attack other members around the Linux
> > >
> > > It is an excellent opportunity for CeroWrt to position itself
> > > with regards to Linux and broader open source technology. You would be
> > > joining the community consisting not only of the hardest proponents of
> > > source technology, but also patent-centric companies such as Fujitsu,
> > > Point, Vodafone, LG and HTC in perceiving tremendous benefit from
> > > and understand the importance of open innovation.
> > >
> > > You may be interested in some credentials and in getting more context
> > > our work. Here is an endorsement from Jim Zemlin, Executive Director
> of the
> > > Linux Foundation:
> > >
> > >
> > > Here from Eben Moglen, Chairman of the Software Freedom Law Center:
> > > http://emoglen.law.columbia.edu/now/organizations/OIN
> > >
> > >
> > > This is all about building a community intended to get the software
> > > aggression out of this world, with the idea behind: when everybody
> > > peace, there will be no wars. We are passionate supporters of open
> > > innovation. I hope we will be able to welcome CeroWrt to our
> > > community. Every single voice helps us counteract patent aggression and
> > > build on a more collaborative future.
> > >
> > > Attached is a very short overview of OIN + FAQs, but I am happy to
> > > any questions and to explain in more detail what we do.
> > >
> > > Can you discuss this with the team and let me know what you guys
> think? May
> > > you decide positively there is a possibility to sign in online:
> > >
> > > http://www.openinventionnetwork.com/joining-oin/license-agreement/
> > >
> > >
> > > Best regards,
> > > Valer Mischenko,
> > > Open Invention Network
> > >
> > > www.openinventionnetwork.com
> > --
> > Dave Täht
> > Do you want faster, better, wifi? https://www.patreon.com/dtaht
> Bloat mailing list
> Bloat at lists.bufferbloat.net
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