[Cake] the Cake stalemate

Pete Heist pete at heistp.net
Tue Jun 19 16:14:41 EDT 2018

> On Jun 19, 2018, at 6:24 PM, Dave Taht <dave.taht at gmail.com> wrote:
> "forking" code and living out of tree for a while has been a way to
> spin faster on solving thorny problems, and welcome newer,
> less experienced devs to a difficult codebase while encouraging folk
> in the problem domain to enter.

I hadn’t though of that. It’s important.

> I am an increasingly
> lousy programmer, (for the record my best languages were lisp and perl
> 15+ years back), and these days far more interested in politics and
> theory, than in the grunge of programming (I do confess interest in go
> which is cheering me up

Maybe give Go some more time before hanging up the editor? It looks like it will be around a while, and “asymptotically approaching boring” as they like to say about it. (an oldie but a goodie: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sln-gJaURzk <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sln-gJaURzk>).

> Cake specifically is not modular to gain benefits.

sort of like the monolithic kernel that way...

> I'm oft-boggled by what it has become.

I think it just shows there’s a need for all of it, but I still never felt like we’ve fully nailed how to explain it. It’s not easy! For the untechnical, I don’t think we can do much better than “it makes your Internet faster”, which is what most people want, to get on with their lives and any “settings” are already too many. For more technical people, it’s a series of features that deserve individual explanation, like you have in your slides, only it’s a lot to fit into 20 minutes. I’ll try to look at it again.

> I go through long periods unsubscribed to the netdev mailing list. I
> can't stand the patch volume; just watching it go by burns me out. I
> feel the pain of those compelled to be on it, and have a great deal of
> sympathy for dave miller's irascibility. In person eric, david,
> stephen are *great*. Jesper, dave woodhouse, Jon corbet are *amazing*.
> so many people are great in person but testy on mailing lists. some
> are great on mailing lists but lousy in person….
> The main reason why I'm on nedev is to spot interesting new features
> and watch bugs get found and fixed, and I'm hoping to get off of it
> again a few months after cake makes it in. With a sigh of relief.

Thanks for those insights. Kernel-space isn’t for everyone I guess...

> Maybe this userspace wifi emulator will get funded. Not feeling burned
> out over having to face c or the kernel again feels good.

Please let’s try. I think we can do a good job with it, and WiFi testing is a real pain point. My closet looks ridiculous (pictures to come), and I bet I have the most reasonable setup of any of us. Would it be an open source project?

> the cake codebase has benefited hugely by finally getting more review
> from the top devs in the field now, and I applaud y'alls persistence.
> We'll find this last bug, and then…

Wish I could help more with development but there may be too much bootstrapping for me with what little left is needed. I’ve never been able to really fault in the source.
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