From dave.taht at gmail.com  Tue Apr  6 10:50:37 2021
From: dave.taht at gmail.com (Dave Taht)
Date: Tue, 6 Apr 2021 07:50:37 -0700
Subject: [Cake] Fwd: Update | Starlink Beta
In-Reply-To: <CANmPVK-wsLrn4bp+pJ8j4K-ZYxQfVYqDQSBPLPKoK02KXdHBow@mail.gmail.com>
References: <wCPnMFHETQCgTR9s6iHn8w@geopod-ismtpd-2-0>
 <CANmPVK-wsLrn4bp+pJ8j4K-ZYxQfVYqDQSBPLPKoK02KXdHBow@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAA93jw7-D03x=C5Z+Hy=0cQU96fKBA-bZ+9_4cQf88ZasSx==g@mail.gmail.com>

Send a resume to:

*starlinksoftwarejobs at spacex.com <starlinksoftwarejobs at spacex.com>*

If anyone here would like to apply. Got no idea what "dynamic frame
allocation" is, but they are still testing out as quite bloated....

---------- Forwarded message ---------
From: myfriendontheinside <myfriendontheinside at gmail.com>
Date: Mon, Apr 5, 2021 at 10:18 PM
Subject: Fwd: Update | Starlink Beta
To: Dave Taht <dave.taht at gmail.com>


Starlink update email

---------- Forwarded message ---------
From: Starlink <no-reply at starlink.com>
Date: Mon, Apr 5, 2021, 7:23 PM
Subject: Update | Starlink Beta



[image: Starlink Logo]

Throughout the beta program, customer feedback has helped drive some of our
most important changes to date as we continue to test and scale the network.

The Starlink team has implemented a number of improvements since our last
update. Below are some of the key highlights:
*Starlink Expansion*
Since rollout of initial U.S. service in October 2020, Starlink now offers
limited beta service in Canada, U.K., Germany and New Zealand. To date, we
have deposits from almost every country around the world; going forward,
our ability to expand service will be driven in large part by governments
granting us licensing internationally.

*Preventative Maintenance*
Recently some beta users saw short but more frequent outages, particularly
in the evening hours. This was caused by two main issues— preventive
maintenance on various ground gateways, coupled with a network logic bug
that intermittently caused some packet processing services to hang until
they were reset. The good news is fixes were implemented and users should
no longer see this particular issue.

Gateway Availability
As more users come online, the team is seeing an increase in surges of
activity, particularly during peak hours.  The gateway infrastructure to
support these types of surges is in place, but we are awaiting final
regulatory approval to use all available channels.  Near term fixes have
been implemented to facilitate better load balancing in the interim, and
this issue will fully resolve once all approvals are received.

*Dynamic Frame Allocation*
The Starlink software team recently rolled out our dynamic frame allocation
feature which dynamically allocates additional bandwidth to beta users
based on real time usage. This feature enables the network to better
balance load and deliver higher speeds to the user.

*Connecting to the Best Satellite*
Today, your Starlink speaks to a single satellite assigned to your terminal
for a particular period of time.  In the future, if communication with your
assigned satellite is interrupted for any reason, your Starlink will
seamlessly switch to a different satellite, resulting in far fewer network
disruptions. There can only be one satellite connected to your Starlink at
any time, but this feature will allow for choice of the best satellite.
This feature will be available to most beta users in April and is expected
to deliver one of our most notable reliability improvements to date.
These upgrades are part of our overall effort to build a network that not
only reaches underserved users, but also performs significantly better than
traditional satellite internet.

To that end, the Starlink team is always looking for great software,
integration and network engineers. If you want to help us build the
internet in space, please send your resume to *starlinksoftwarejobs at spacex.com
<starlinksoftwarejobs at spacex.com>*.
Thank you for your feedback and continued support!
The Starlink Team
Space Exploration Technologies Corp | 1 Rocket Road, Hawthorne, CA 90250 |
Unsubscribe
Questions? See Starlink FAQs <https://www.starlink.com/faq>


-- 
"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public
relations, for Mother Nature cannot be fooled" - Richard Feynman

dave at taht.net <Dave Täht> CTO, TekLibre, LLC Tel: 1-831-435-0729
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From dave.taht at gmail.com  Tue Apr  6 23:22:28 2021
From: dave.taht at gmail.com (Dave Taht)
Date: Tue, 6 Apr 2021 20:22:28 -0700
Subject: [Cake] caida workshop on Overcoming Measurement Barriers to
 Internet Research (WOMBIR-2)
Message-ID: <CAA93jw5dTO_exvS_CRsvdsngoML2fNXOt0ywxJAQAQmo2WJEaA@mail.gmail.com>

april 15-20

 https://www.caida.org/workshops/wombir/2104/

registration is free.

-- 
"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public
relations, for Mother Nature cannot be fooled" - Richard Feynman

dave at taht.net <Dave Täht> CTO, TekLibre, LLC Tel: 1-831-435-0729

From dave.taht at gmail.com  Mon Apr 19 09:56:33 2021
From: dave.taht at gmail.com (Dave Taht)
Date: Mon, 19 Apr 2021 06:56:33 -0700
Subject: [Cake] starlink testing
Message-ID: <CAA93jw5FEe90Dw3_tGubna=_Urzbq6dYMMrifGV7bMuhL2nXKg@mail.gmail.com>

I find myself in front of a starlink terminal this morning, and have
been doing various tests. The behavior of their network is like
nothing I've ever seen before, appearing to re-adjust the available
bandwidth on a 10sec interval, and... yes... they have bufferbloat...
bad.

Still running quite the large battery of tests at the moment. They are
behind a large cgnat, and
no ipv6 is available, either. I can make available some tests and
packet caps if anyone wants a look.

If anyone would like to drop in on me and help talk me
down^H^H^H^H^H^H^H strategize on how
best to tell 'em about things like fq_codel and cake, I can be found
over here (any login you want, no password) from 7AM PDT through 9AM.

https://tun.taht.net:8443/group/bufferbloat



--
"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public
relations, for Mother Nature cannot be fooled" - Richard Feynman

dave at taht.net <Dave Täht> CTO, TekLibre, LLC Tel: 1-831-435-0729

From david at lang.hm  Mon Apr 19 14:00:45 2021
From: david at lang.hm (David Lang)
Date: Mon, 19 Apr 2021 11:00:45 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Cake] [Bloat] starlink testing
In-Reply-To: <CAA93jw5FEe90Dw3_tGubna=_Urzbq6dYMMrifGV7bMuhL2nXKg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAA93jw5FEe90Dw3_tGubna=_Urzbq6dYMMrifGV7bMuhL2nXKg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <nycvar.QRO.7.76.6.2104191057361.18176@qynat-yncgbc>

are you able to sniff between the router and the dish? I'm curious how much of 
the smarts is in the dish vs the router. My hope is that the router is just a 
conventional router with the satellite network smarts in the dish.

David Lang


On Mon, 19 Apr 2021, Dave Taht wrote:

> Date: Mon, 19 Apr 2021 06:56:33 -0700
> From: Dave Taht <dave.taht at gmail.com>
> To: bloat <bloat at lists.bufferbloat.net>,
>     Cake List <cake at lists.bufferbloat.net>
> Subject: [Bloat] starlink testing
> 
> I find myself in front of a starlink terminal this morning, and have
> been doing various tests. The behavior of their network is like
> nothing I've ever seen before, appearing to re-adjust the available
> bandwidth on a 10sec interval, and... yes... they have bufferbloat...
> bad.
>
> Still running quite the large battery of tests at the moment. They are
> behind a large cgnat, and
> no ipv6 is available, either. I can make available some tests and
> packet caps if anyone wants a look.
>
> If anyone would like to drop in on me and help talk me
> down^H^H^H^H^H^H^H strategize on how
> best to tell 'em about things like fq_codel and cake, I can be found
> over here (any login you want, no password) from 7AM PDT through 9AM.
>
> https://tun.taht.net:8443/group/bufferbloat
>
>
>
> --
> "For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public
> relations, for Mother Nature cannot be fooled" - Richard Feynman
>
> dave at taht.net <Dave Täht> CTO, TekLibre, LLC Tel: 1-831-435-0729
> _______________________________________________
> Bloat mailing list
> Bloat at lists.bufferbloat.net
> https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/bloat

From mcr at sandelman.ca  Mon Apr 19 17:10:42 2021
From: mcr at sandelman.ca (Michael Richardson)
Date: Mon, 19 Apr 2021 17:10:42 -0400
Subject: [Cake] [Bloat] starlink testing
In-Reply-To: <nycvar.QRO.7.76.6.2104191057361.18176@qynat-yncgbc>
References: <CAA93jw5FEe90Dw3_tGubna=_Urzbq6dYMMrifGV7bMuhL2nXKg@mail.gmail.com>
 <nycvar.QRO.7.76.6.2104191057361.18176@qynat-yncgbc>
Message-ID: <10241.1618866642@localhost>


David Lang <david at lang.hm> wrote:
    > are you able to sniff between the router and the dish? I'm curious how much
    > of the smarts is in the dish vs the router. My hope is that the router is
    > just a conventional router with the satellite network smarts in the dish.

No.
See the teardowns, such as: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QudtSo5tpLk
It's a huge synthetic antenna.  It's openwrt though.

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From david at lang.hm  Mon Apr 19 17:42:58 2021
From: david at lang.hm (David Lang)
Date: Mon, 19 Apr 2021 14:42:58 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Cake] [Bloat] starlink testing
In-Reply-To: <10241.1618866642@localhost>
References: <CAA93jw5FEe90Dw3_tGubna=_Urzbq6dYMMrifGV7bMuhL2nXKg@mail.gmail.com>
 <nycvar.QRO.7.76.6.2104191057361.18176@qynat-yncgbc>
 <10241.1618866642@localhost>
Message-ID: <nycvar.QRO.7.76.6.2104191439590.18176@qynat-yncgbc>

I've watched those, and it's PoE communication to the dish, and there is a 
processor on the dish with a serial console.

I haven't seen any follow-ups where anyone has gotten a login to the dish or has 
sniffed the traffic between the dish and the router.

I haven't seen anything that would show that the router has (or doesn't have) 
any awareness of the satellite network.

That's why I was asking about sniffing between the devices to see what's 
happening there.

David Lang

On Mon, 19 Apr 2021, Michael Richardson wrote:

> David Lang <david at lang.hm> wrote:
>    > are you able to sniff between the router and the dish? I'm curious how much
>    > of the smarts is in the dish vs the router. My hope is that the router is
>    > just a conventional router with the satellite network smarts in the dish.
>
> No.
> See the teardowns, such as: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QudtSo5tpLk
> It's a huge synthetic antenna.  It's openwrt though.
>
>

From mcr at sandelman.ca  Tue Apr 20 10:09:58 2021
From: mcr at sandelman.ca (Michael Richardson)
Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2021 10:09:58 -0400
Subject: [Cake] [Bloat] starlink testing
In-Reply-To: <nycvar.QRO.7.76.6.2104191439590.18176@qynat-yncgbc>
References: <CAA93jw5FEe90Dw3_tGubna=_Urzbq6dYMMrifGV7bMuhL2nXKg@mail.gmail.com>
 <nycvar.QRO.7.76.6.2104191057361.18176@qynat-yncgbc>
 <10241.1618866642@localhost>
 <nycvar.QRO.7.76.6.2104191439590.18176@qynat-yncgbc>
Message-ID: <21914.1618927798@localhost>

David Lang <david at lang.hm> wrote:
    > I haven't seen any follow-ups where anyone has gotten a login to the dish or
    > has sniffed the traffic between the dish and the router.

True, I haven't heard, but I haven't been looking.

    > I haven't seen anything that would show that the router has (or doesn't have)
    > any awareness of the satellite network.

With multi-hundred antenna to be steered, and an AMD64 CPU on board, I can't
imagine that that CPU isn't doing some significant amount of DSP.
If they had offboarded all the analog parts to another DSP or discrete logic,
then probably they wouldn't need a 64-bit CPU onboard: they could have used
something slower/cheaper.  Well, maybe there is future proofing involved.

I'm very disappointed that "Something simpler than IPv6" turned out to be "CGN".

--
]               Never tell me the odds!                 | ipv6 mesh networks [
]   Michael Richardson, Sandelman Software Works        |    IoT architect   [
]     mcr at sandelman.ca  http://www.sandelman.ca/        |   ruby on rails    [


From dave.taht at gmail.com  Tue Apr 20 11:48:17 2021
From: dave.taht at gmail.com (Dave Taht)
Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2021 08:48:17 -0700
Subject: [Cake] [Bloat] starlink testing
In-Reply-To: <21914.1618927798@localhost>
References: <CAA93jw5FEe90Dw3_tGubna=_Urzbq6dYMMrifGV7bMuhL2nXKg@mail.gmail.com>
 <nycvar.QRO.7.76.6.2104191057361.18176@qynat-yncgbc>
 <10241.1618866642@localhost>
 <nycvar.QRO.7.76.6.2104191439590.18176@qynat-yncgbc>
 <21914.1618927798@localhost>
Message-ID: <CAA93jw7=wV6hvgKTwVa6mTpLgJnHBuVX74-aSNSXzxHm-MPzaA@mail.gmail.com>

I'm still busy doing more and more sophisticated tests and packet
captures. I am inclined to "go dark" for a while whilst I do that, but
if anyone would like to help re-write the ultimate blog entry, or
help out on instrumenting more tests, please contact me offlist.

Apparently there is IPv6 under test... somewhere... according to
reddit. Tunnelling my ipv6 via wireguard "just worked", so there's
that. There have been a few other surprises, one rather major.

As much as I dislike the cgnat I don't see how starlink had any other
choice, and the layer below that is hopefully capable of carrying
ipv6 well.

On Tue, Apr 20, 2021 at 7:10 AM Michael Richardson <mcr at sandelman.ca> wrote:
>
> David Lang <david at lang.hm> wrote:
>     > I haven't seen any follow-ups where anyone has gotten a login to the dish or
>     > has sniffed the traffic between the dish and the router.
>
> True, I haven't heard, but I haven't been looking.
>
>     > I haven't seen anything that would show that the router has (or doesn't have)
>     > any awareness of the satellite network.
>
> With multi-hundred antenna to be steered, and an AMD64 CPU on board, I can't
> imagine that that CPU isn't doing some significant amount of DSP.
> If they had offboarded all the analog parts to another DSP or discrete logic,
> then probably they wouldn't need a 64-bit CPU onboard: they could have used
> something slower/cheaper.  Well, maybe there is future proofing involved.
>
> I'm very disappointed that "Something simpler than IPv6" turned out to be "CGN".
>
> --
> ]               Never tell me the odds!                 | ipv6 mesh networks [
> ]   Michael Richardson, Sandelman Software Works        |    IoT architect   [
> ]     mcr at sandelman.ca  http://www.sandelman.ca/        |   ruby on rails    [
>


-- 
"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public
relations, for Mother Nature cannot be fooled" - Richard Feynman

dave at taht.net <Dave Täht> CTO, TekLibre, LLC Tel: 1-831-435-0729

From mcr at sandelman.ca  Tue Apr 20 12:03:30 2021
From: mcr at sandelman.ca (Michael Richardson)
Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2021 12:03:30 -0400
Subject: [Cake] [Bloat] starlink testing
In-Reply-To: <CAA93jw7=wV6hvgKTwVa6mTpLgJnHBuVX74-aSNSXzxHm-MPzaA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAA93jw5FEe90Dw3_tGubna=_Urzbq6dYMMrifGV7bMuhL2nXKg@mail.gmail.com>
 <nycvar.QRO.7.76.6.2104191057361.18176@qynat-yncgbc>
 <10241.1618866642@localhost>
 <nycvar.QRO.7.76.6.2104191439590.18176@qynat-yncgbc>
 <21914.1618927798@localhost>
 <CAA93jw7=wV6hvgKTwVa6mTpLgJnHBuVX74-aSNSXzxHm-MPzaA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <22035.1618934610@localhost>

Dave Taht <dave.taht at gmail.com> wrote:
    > As much as I dislike the cgnat I don't see how starlink had any other
    > choice, and the layer below that is hopefully capable of carrying
    > ipv6 well.

IPv6 first, with NAT64 would have been significantly better and easier.


From dave.taht at gmail.com  Tue Apr 20 23:11:33 2021
From: dave.taht at gmail.com (Dave Taht)
Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2021 20:11:33 -0700
Subject: [Cake] initial starlink bloat discussion wed 2PM PDT
Message-ID: <CAA93jw7YofYeFqS84bYn4zMSHhP_r9bt8VPSa6FYOg=GAajcow@mail.gmail.com>

if anyone would like to join? Use any login you like, no password, at
the following
videoconferencing url. Chrome works best.

https://tun.taht.net:8443/group/bufferbloat


-- 
"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public
relations, for Mother Nature cannot be fooled" - Richard Feynman

dave at taht.net <Dave Täht> CTO, TekLibre, LLC Tel: 1-831-435-0729