[Cerowrt-devel] [Bloat] some good bloat related stuff on the ICCRG agenda, IETF #86 Tuesday, March 12 2013, 13:00-15:00, room Caribbean 6

Matt Mathis mattmathis at google.com
Thu Feb 28 14:55:20 EST 2013

Two of the tests in my model based metrics draft (for IPPM) are for
AQM (like) tests.   One we have pretty good theory for (preventing
standing queues in congestion avoidance) and the other we don't
(exiting from slowstart at a reasonable window).

See: draft-mathis-ippm-model-based-metrics-01.txt

My intent is that these tests will become part of a future IPPM
standard on what a network must do in order to support modern
applications at specific performance levels.     Although the draft
will not specify AQM algorithms at all, it will forbid some non-AQM
behaviors such as unreasonable standing queues.   To the extent that
it gets traction as a standard, it will strongly encourage deployment,
even if we are not totally convinced that our current AQM algorithms
are 100% correct.

However, It is not clear that we need to standardize AQM - It strikes
me as one area where we can permit pretty much unfettered diversity in
the operational Internet as long as it meets a pretty low  "it seems
to work" bar.

For this reason it is important to deploy your favorite algorithm(s)
ASAP, because they are all infinitely better than none, and future
improvements will be relatively minor by comparison.

The best way to predict the future is to create it.  - Alan Kay

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services to speak in defiance of unjust governments.   We treat
privacy and security as matters of life and death, because for some
users, they are.

On Thu, Feb 28, 2013 at 10:47 AM, <dpreed at reed.com> wrote:
> A small suggestion.  Instead of working on *algorithms*, focus on getting something actually *deployed* to fix the very real issues that we have today (preserving the option to upgrade later if need be).
> The folks who built the Internet (I was there, as you probably know) focused on making stuff that worked and interoperated, not publishing papers or RFCs.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: "Wesley Eddy" <wes at mti-systems.com>
> Sent: Thursday, February 28, 2013 1:11pm
> To: "Dave Taht" <dave.taht at gmail.com>
> Cc: bloat-announce at lists.bufferbloat.net, "Martin Stiemerling" <Martin.Stiemerling at neclab.eu>, cerowrt-devel at lists.bufferbloat.net, "bloat" <bloat at lists.bufferbloat.net>
> Subject: Re: [Cerowrt-devel] [Bloat] some good bloat related stuff on the ICCRG agenda, IETF #86 Tuesday, March 12 2013, 13:00-15:00, room Caribbean 6
> On 2/28/2013 10:53 AM, Dave Taht wrote:
> >
> > For those that don't attend ietf meetings in person, there is usually
> > live audio and jabber chat hooked up into the presentations.
> >
> > See y'all there, next month, in one form or another.
> >
> In the TSVAREA meeting, we've also set aside some time to talk
> about AQM and whether there's interest and energy to do some
> more specific work on AQM algs in the IETF (e.g. like CoDel and
> PIE):
> https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/86/agenda/tsvarea
> I'm working with Martin on some slides to seed the discussion,
> but we hope that it's mostly the community that we hear from,
> following up in the higher-bandwidth face-to-face time from
> the thread we had on the tsv-area at ietf.org mailing list a few
> months ago.
> --
> Wes Eddy
> MTI Systems
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