[Cerowrt-devel] my thx to spacex (and kerbal space program) forcheering me up all year

[Scott Manley]

Oh but I'm fascinated by the discussion of Starlink's network performance.!

On Sat, Jan 2, 2021 at 9:17 AM Dave Taht <dave.taht at gmail.com> wrote:

> Taking scott manley off the cc. As much as I would like him to sit in
> on that song, I don't think he cares about bufferbloat as much as Id
> like him to.... I do wish I knew someone that could just magically get
> the bufferbloat issue raised within
> starlink effectively....
>
> On Fri, Jan 1, 2021 at 3:31 PM David P. Reed <dpreed at deepplum.com> wrote:
> >
> > It has bufferbloat?
>
> Yep. See links below.
>
> > Why am I not surprised?
>
> I was surprised given the length of the talk I'd had with their VP,
> eng, but I do figure that getting the thing working at all
> was a greater challenge than tackling our issue. I've long worried of
> course, that the mac layer on this thing was going to be very weird,
> and since they were working with qca they'd end up buring everything
> in the network offload processors, even though at present speeds the
> cpu they are using is *loafing*, Im not as optimistic as jon is as to
> how easy the port of cake or fq_codel would be to their hardware as it
> is variable bandwidth and thus needs bql-like backpressure.
>
>
> Since there doesn't seem to be a gpl drop yet we don't know a lot,
> however there was a teardown of the hw and jim's posting and a start
> at testing on reddit - the dslreports test was flawed in that ping did
> not work at all....
>
>
> https://www.reddit.com/r/Starlink/comments/k0dwon/starlink_and_bufferbloat_testing/
>
> rate limiting with sqm works:
>
>
> https://www.reddit.com/r/Starlink/comments/jxkef9/ahat_is_your_starlinks_bufferbloat_score/
>
> and the starlink teardown was good:
>
> https://www.reddit.com/r/hardware/comments/kchxl8/starlink_teardown_and_analysis/
>
> We think that this hardware actually has fq_codel AND hw rate limiting
> in it. But that's not the right thing for a starlink up or downlink
> which is variable rate.
>
> any I know at least 5 people on the beta list and maybe we can get
> better testing done in the next month or two.
>
> It would of course be great if somehow we could get loud enough for
> musk to tweet back or hire one of us to help 'em get it right.... I
> had a friend of mine send him a suitably inscribed copy of toke's
> "bufferbloat and beyond" via interoffice mail... but finding someone
> up there more focused on the terminal software itself would be better.
> I mean low latency should be their bread and butter and while Im sad
> that the early tests are dismal, I am pretty confident that ultimately
> they will get it right.
>
> > I can share that one stack hasn't had it from the start, by design. That
> is one implemented for trading at 10+ GB/sec, implemented in Verilog, and
> now apparently in production use at one of the largest NY trading
> intermediaries.
>
> Yea!
>
> >
> > Why? Simply two reasons:
> >
> > 1. People who design parallel hardware systems are trained to focus on
> closing timing constraints. Which means never using FIFOs that are longer
> than absolute minimum. The designer is a VLSI designer by trade, not a
> networking guy.
> >
> > 2. Trading is all about managing delay. In this case, 100 msec packet
> delay is worst allowable case end to end.
> >
> > Yet it is full TCP in hardware.
> >
> > Can't share more, because I don't know more, it being all proprietary to
> the bank in question.
> >
> > Now, one wonders: why can't Starlink get it right first time?
> >
> > It's not like bufferbloat is hard on a single bent pipe hop, which is
> all Starlink does today.
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: "Dave Taht" <dave.taht at gmail.com>
> > Sent: Thu, Dec 31, 2020 at 1:37 pm
> > To: "bloat" <bloat at lists.bufferbloat.net>, "cerowrt-devel" <
> cerowrt-devel at lists.bufferbloat.net>, "Scott Manley" <
> scottmanley1972 at gmail.com>
> > Cc: "bloat" <bloat at lists.bufferbloat.net>, "cerowrt-devel" <
> cerowrt-devel at lists.bufferbloat.net>, "Scott Manley" <
> scottmanley1972 at gmail.com>
> > Subject: [Cerowrt-devel] my thx to spacex (and kerbal space program)
> forcheering me up all year
> >
> > If it wasn't for such a long list of wonderful accomplishments in
> > space, it would have been a sadder year. i just re-recorded my song
> > "one first landing" out on my dinghy:
> >
> > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wjur0RG-v-I&feature=youtu.be
> >
> > Maybe someday I'll get scott manley to do his verse on this. Try as I
> > might over the past few years, I still can't cop his accent.
> >
> > Now if we can only fix starlink's bufferbloat! It looks to me like the
> > firmware is QCA's openwrt derivative...
> >
> > --
> > "For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public
> > relations, for Mother Nature cannot be fooled" - Richard Feynman
> >
> > dave at taht.net  CTO, TekLibre, LLC Tel: 1-831-435-0729
> > _______________________________________________
> > Cerowrt-devel mailing list
> > Cerowrt-devel at lists.bufferbloat.net
> > https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/cerowrt-devel
> >
> >
>
>
> --
> "For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public
> relations, for Mother Nature cannot be fooled" - Richard Feynman
>
> dave at taht.net <Dave Täht> CTO, TekLibre, LLC Tel: 1-831-435-0729
>
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