<br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Mon, May 27, 2013 at 2:08 PM, Lance Hepler <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:nlhepler@gmail.com" target="_blank">nlhepler@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="ltr"><div class="im">On Mon, May 27, 2013 at 6:13 AM, Dave Taht <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:dave.taht@gmail.com" target="_blank">dave.taht@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br></div><div class="gmail_extra">
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<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div class="im"><span style="color:rgb(80,0,80)">On Sun, May 26, 2013 at 6:23 PM, Lance Hepler </span><span dir="ltr" style="color:rgb(80,0,80)"><<a href="mailto:nlhepler@gmail.com" target="_blank">nlhepler@gmail.com</a>></span><span style="color:rgb(80,0,80)"> wrote:</span></div>
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<div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><div>I'd be interested in your netperf testing setup. </div></div></blockquote></div><div><br>
The test we've been developing is called the rrul test. The prototype (which is working quite well is at:<br>
<br><a href="https://github.com/tohojo/netperf-wrapper" target="_blank">https://github.com/tohojo/netperf-wrapper</a><br>
<br>I use the results in my talks a lot.<br></div></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>Ahh! Neato! I'll have to play with this!</div></div></div></div></blockquote><div><br>Prior to that, everybody was testing up, down, and ping separately, and not testing TCP. I'm hoping somebody like speedtest gets around to testing all that at the same time one day soon.<br>
<br>In the meantime it's darn useful in a wide variety of scenarios.<br><br>I add the "best of" tests to:<br><br><a href="http://www.bufferbloat.net/projects/codel/wiki/RRUL_Rogues_Gallery">http://www.bufferbloat.net/projects/codel/wiki/RRUL_Rogues_Gallery</a><br>
<br>I'm a little behind, I have some good ones on wifi that I've used in various presos, as well as of rtt fairness and of ipv6 vs ipv4. The tests continue to evolve, more recently adding equivalents to the cisco pie tests, etc.<br>
<br>Still needed are a good VOIP and a good DASH test, and I'd like very much to start collecting statistics on how much classification is mangled on the wild and wooly internet. Toke is buried with his thesis...<br><br>
We have several public netperf servers available (hope to add more), but it's easy to just put up one of your own somewhere. Just compile netperf from svn with the --enable-demo option on your clients and servers.<br>
<br>cero comes with netserver enabled by default on your internal interfaces. It does NOT scale to the highest bandwidths available but is useful for testing low rate shapers.<br><br> <br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
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<div class="gmail_quote"><div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><div>With the AR71xx chips going out of style, the AR934x series is probably our best bet for readily consumer-available hardware with open-source friendly SoCs. </div>
</div></blockquote></div><div><br>It seems like it. But with MIPS Technologies effectively defunct the only real hope I have for architectural progress on that architecture would come from a licensee with chops. <br></div>
</div></blockquote><div><br></div></div><div>You raise a good point. </div></div></div></div></blockquote><div><br>Sigh. I liked MIPS. But arm has leapfrogged 3 generations to MIPS's one...<br><br>Arm chips almost universally have their wifi interfaces hooked up via a very slow bus (usb or spi), and are rife with binary blobs in most of their incarnations (android, marvel, are big offenders) Few have a decent ethernet chip, or more than 1. <br>
<br>PPC might re-enter this market.<br><br>So you could look at all this as a problem or an opportunity to arduinize the edge of the net.<br><br>At the moment it seems best long term to leverage all the activity on arm, particularly on the server attempts and the FPGA combos to make progress forward. <br>
<br>Given that the first generation 802.11ac devices don't support multi-user MIMO apparently, there is room to innovate here in the next, next generation of edge hardware vs the established majors.<br><br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_extra"><div class="gmail_quote"><div class="im"><div> </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div class="gmail_quote"><div>
So there is certainly room to drop most of the extra stuff in the zedboard, design a new board around the zynq for a new-age cero router around it (8 ethernet phys, 2-3 of which being SFP+ and gpon capable), add pcie for 2 radios, pins to do software radio as development continues, arduino headers, and dunno, battery support?<br>
</div></div></blockquote><div><br></div></div><div>Sounds like the beginning of a kickstarter project. =)</div></div></div></div></blockquote><div><br>I was a big fan of the <a href="http://netfpga.org">netfpga.org</a> project but their current 10GigE direction is very expensive and not as useful as trying to do a standalone board < 500 dollars cost. <br>
<br>Sadly I think that the kickstarter funding model requires a project considerably further along than "we need to design a cool board to fix the internet with the software we've already developed". Kickstarter is more of a "we are on our last gasp and we just need a little help to ship something useful" model. So angels or VCs or deep pockets would be required to get a zedboard.org-for-a-better-router project off the ground. And my verilog is very rusty.<br>
<br>The zynq idea is a bit longer term than the immediate emergency of trying to find a 3800 replacement, and funding in general is rather scarce. Would have loved to have started the zynq project 6 months ago tho. We'd have something REALLY COOL now.<br>
<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_extra"><div class="gmail_quote"><div class="im"><div> </div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div class="gmail_quote"><div>When I get back to california next week, I hope to find someone to talk to at Xilinx (suggestions, anyone?) about getting started on getting a board like that designed.<br>
</div></div></blockquote><div><br></div></div><div>I'm sure someone in UCSD's vast CS department does. I'll ask around.</div></div></div></div></blockquote><div><br>That would be helpful. They are just down the street from me but their website makes it really hard to find someone to shoot the breeze with.<br>
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<div class="gmail_quote"><div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><div>This is all pretty new stuff, perhaps some more performance can be gleaned by tuning the compiler optimizations (-march=74Kc?), </div>
</div></blockquote></div><div><br>Usually compiler options are not worth all that much. I didn't much care for the deep pipeline in this design either...</div></div></blockquote><div><br></div></div><div>Yea, true. And the design may be deep, but it's dual-issue with ooo-dispatch. It's definitely a lot beefier, though perhaps some basic benchmarking (CoreMark?, Dhrystone?) might be in order to set reasonable expectations for relative performance.</div>
</div></div></div></blockquote><div><br>I don't believe in benchmarks like that for embedded. irq response time, dma are more important. I'll rip out the unaligned access hacks in the next build tho... those are usually hell on pipelined arches.<br>
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<div><br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div class="gmail_quote"><div>We spent a lot of time oprofiling things in the early days of the ar7xx, I will take a harder look as I get time this week. I'm not writing it off, just was very disappointed in what I got initially. The other deal killer for this platform is that 16MB of flash is a requirement for cerowrt's boatload of test tools.<br>
</div></div></blockquote><div><br></div></div><div>The thought of oprofiling these modules hurts.</div></div></div></div></blockquote><div><br>Oh, no, it's fun. You are always surprised by the results, and sometimes easy fixes result in huge gains. It's a good way to stay in touch with the real reality instead of optimising for stuff that isn't important.<br>
</div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_extra"><div class="gmail_quote"><div> As for the flash, that's why I was looking at the NETGEAR models. Plenty of storage if we can get past the NAND issues.</div>
</div></div></div></blockquote><div><br>Looks like progress might be made this week! I'm rooting for everyone. Kind of deep into android at the moment myself... <br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
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<div dir="ltr"><div>Helpfully, the WNDR4300 has 128MB of NAND flash, as does the WNDR3700v4. So compiling a full CeroWRT distribution shouldn't be a problem. The fixeth script will need to be changed, but not much else.</div>
</div></blockquote></div><div><br>ah, you've looked deeply at the boot phase. Applause! Bringing up this board seems easy once the flash issues are resolved... but that requires a level of time (with a scope probably) that I am personally unwilling to invest right now. I think there are people on the problem, tho...<br>
</div></div></blockquote><div><br></div></div><div>Yes I have, thank you! </div></div></div></div></blockquote><div><br>I think you are the first person to ever have read /etc/init.d/boot. I note that I think that's the problem in getting the new procd daemon to work right.... <br>
</div><div><br>I still remain unsure that the oddball device naming scheme in cero is a good idea. Certainly it makes better firewall rules possible... and fw3 supports the + syntax - but it's not something people have adopted to any extent, sooo...<br>
<br> <br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_extra"><div class="gmail_quote"><div>I've dedicated this weekend to trying to grok how openwrt is architected, how cerowrt differs, and where all its magic bits are hidden. Thankfully everything is well-architected, so discovery has been relatively straightforward. The hardest part was trying to figure out all those layers of nested and dynamic board configuration in target/linux/*/image/Makefile.</div>
</div></div></div></blockquote><div><br>I note that cerofiles is a bit out of date. I don't think it's terribly out of date, I just haven't pushed it with the last couple builds being buggy....<br> <br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_extra"><div class="gmail_quote"><span class="HOEnZb"><font color="#888888">
<div><br></div><div>Lance</div></font></span></div></div></div>
</blockquote></div><br><br clear="all"><br>-- <br>Dave Täht<br><br>Fixing bufferbloat with cerowrt: <a href="http://www.teklibre.com/cerowrt/subscribe.html" target="_blank">http://www.teklibre.com/cerowrt/subscribe.html</a>