[LibreQoS] ookla speedtest results?

dan dandenson at gmail.com
Mon Oct 24 13:30:27 EDT 2022 

eero's traffic shaper is problematic because it's based on previous speed
tests.  It gets super erratic.  I have well over 1000 eeros in the field
now and have dealt with people turning it on and their service going to sht
usually because of the late night speed test sharing bandwidth with some
game update or something and updating the shaper.

I don't believe there is a realistic way to handle client side shaping
right now.  Too many vendors, too many use cases, would likely require an
operator to add a demarc router to every customer to shape there.    Should
be noted that I have asked mikrotik to make me a GPeR inspired ARM based
PoE pass through router but got pretty mixed and mostly useless comments in
the forums.    The purpose being a cake shaper AND DHCP option 82 insertion
device with some ability to do packet capture etc on prem.

On Mon, Oct 24, 2022 at 11:14 AM Dave Taht <dave.taht at gmail.com> wrote:

> Some of the context of my request for libreqos on vs off is from here,
> presentation in the wee hours, wed morning.
>
> https://www.linkedin.com/feed/update/urn:li:activity:6989281945868283904/
>
> On Mon, Oct 24, 2022 at 9:48 AM dan via LibreQoS
> <libreqos at lists.bufferbloat.net> wrote:
> >
> > we also have a bunch of 25/5.  It would be nice to get some more
> detailed numbers from ookla tests.
>
> +1! We've argued methods with many a provider, and ookla and samknows
> are new to this game.
>
> As one example I don't know if they use decimal or binary mbits!
>
> ...
>
> ack-filtering in the libreqos case can and will drop acks in both
> directions, due to the structure of how htb
> works in this scenario, at any bandwidth ratio. I *think* it does very
> little harm but I would use the ack-filter
> not the aggressive ack filter out of caution.
>
> Secondly if you are gathering drop statistics from the higher level
> htb categories, total drops will go WAY up,
> and it is best to use the cake drop, ack_drop outputs statistics directly.
>
> ack_drops have nothing to do with congestion control and should be
> ignored in most cases.
>
> Also I keep hoping more will pull out ecn marks separately. Public use
> is way up by e2e transports, and I worry that a high ecn ratio is a
> e2e network error, which might show up as a big backlog.
>
> Presently (in v1.3.), robert (in grafina?) is summing drops + marks.
> which is a good idea, however perhaps drops, marks and drops+marks
> would be better.
>
> An inverse log scale is needed to plot marks, drops, and ack_drops.
>
> I'll always be of the opinion that it's best to run cake on egress at
> the cpe, first, doing all this work before it hits the wire.
> Are any of you doing that? Openwrt/dd-wrt/firewalla/mikrotik 7.2?
>
> >We also have a lot of Eero units out there, so watching for the eero
> speed test would also be great.
>
> eero 5s have cake (and fq_codel on the wifi), eero 6s have a somewhat
> buggy fq_codel offload:
>
>
> https://www.reddit.com/r/eero/comments/u7xm83/gen_2_sqm_vs_gen_3_sqm_stick_with_gen_2_if_you/
> > On Mon, Oct 24, 2022 at 10:31 AM Herbert Wolverson via LibreQoS <
> libreqos at lists.bufferbloat.net> wrote:
> >>
> >> > sniff DNS for those speed test lookups and trigger a packet capture
> for x duration?
> >>
> >> That's a good idea (I think there's a service somewhere for finding
> speedtest
> >> servers?). We're discussing testing the ack-filter feature right now,
> and something
> >> similar would work well for that. (We have a bunch of 25/5 and
> similarly asymmetric
> >> connections, in theory it'll help...)
> >>
> >> On Mon, Oct 24, 2022 at 10:31 AM dan via LibreQoS <
> libreqos at lists.bufferbloat.net> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> sniff DNS for those speed test lookups and trigger a packet capture
> for x duration?
> >>>
> >>> On Mon, Oct 24, 2022 at 9:27 AM Dave Taht <dave.taht at gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>> On Mon, Oct 24, 2022 at 8:20 AM dan <dandenson at gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>> >
> >>>> > Dave, I think that 'bouncing' is more CPU time in the browser.  I
> don't think it's indicative over what's actually happening.
> >>>>
> >>>> A simultaneous packet capture and wireshark plot of the RTTs would
> >>>> also be helpful.
> >>>>
> >>>> >
> >>>> > On Mon, Oct 24, 2022 at 9:09 AM Dave Taht via LibreQoS <
> libreqos at lists.bufferbloat.net> wrote:
> >>>> >>
> >>>> >> On Mon, Oct 24, 2022 at 8:02 AM Robert Chacón via LibreQoS
> >>>> >> <libreqos at lists.bufferbloat.net> wrote:
> >>>> >> >
> >>>> >> > I can run an Ookla test in the middle of the night with LibreQoS
> off for a bit.
> >>>> >>
> >>>> >> Groovy.
> >>>> >>
> >>>> >> > From what I recall - without Libre we see download bloat of
> 300ms or so. With Libre, it's gone. On waveform we see 0ms added bloat each
> direction for most clients.
> >>>> >>
> >>>> >> The numbers report by speedtest bounce around a lot, and they tend
> to
> >>>> >> pick a lower number as a final result than I'd
> >>>> >> like. If there's a way to capture a movie of it...
> >>>> >> >
> >>>> >> > And I like the "monitor only" mode idea.
> >>>> >> > Perhaps we could create the HTB tree, but just not attach the
> CAKE qdisc?
> >>>> >> > Technically even HTB could reduce latency by itself on
> overloaded APs , so it wouldn't be true passive monitoring, but it would
> allow us to compare the before/after of CAKE while still having qdiscs we
> can point cpumap-pping to.
> >>>> >> >
> >>>> >> > Alternatively, maybe we could use eBPF PPing just for this
> passive monitoring period?
> >>>> >> >
> >>>> >> >
> >>>> >> > On Mon, Oct 24, 2022 at 8:02 AM Herbert Wolverson via LibreQoS <
> libreqos at lists.bufferbloat.net> wrote:
> >>>> >> >>
> >>>> >> >> Are you looking for a shaped result? That'll show "whatever
> bandwidth
> >>>> >> >> is left on the sector" without Libre, and around the customer's
> paid-for
> >>>> >> >> target with Libre (hopefully!).
> >>>> >> >>
> >>>> >> >> One thing Preseem does well is that their onboarding process
> includes
> >>>> >> >> "leave it in monitoring-only mode" for a week, gathering data
> before you
> >>>> >> >> pull the switch (although most ISPs I've talked to just pull
> the switch...)
> >>>> >> >> It's quite enlightening to see a before/after, even with only
> FQ_CODEL
> >>>> >> >> as the shaper.
> >>>> >> >>
> >>>> >> >> We could probably do something similar with a "monitor only"
> mode that
> >>>> >> >> doesn't enable any queues (is there a TC equivalent to "dummy"
> on
> >>>> >> >> FreeBSD?).
> >>>> >> >>
> >>>> >> >> On Mon, Oct 24, 2022 at 8:52 AM Dave Taht via LibreQoS <
> libreqos at lists.bufferbloat.net> wrote:
> >>>> >> >>>
> >>>> >> >>> I am curious if anyone here has speedtest results with
> libreqos on and
> >>>> >> >>> off, and can send a screen shot?
> >>>> >> >>>
> >>>> >> >>> --
> >>>> >> >>> This song goes out to all the folk that thought Stadia would
> work:
> >>>> >> >>>
> https://www.linkedin.com/posts/dtaht_the-mushroom-song-activity-6981366665607352320-FXtz
> >>>> >> >>> Dave Täht CEO, TekLibre, LLC
> >>>> >> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>>> >> >>> LibreQoS mailing list
> >>>> >> >>> LibreQoS at lists.bufferbloat.net
> >>>> >> >>> https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/libreqos
> >>>> >> >>
> >>>> >> >> _______________________________________________
> >>>> >> >> LibreQoS mailing list
> >>>> >> >> LibreQoS at lists.bufferbloat.net
> >>>> >> >> https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/libreqos
> >>>> >> >
> >>>> >> >
> >>>> >> >
> >>>> >> > --
> >>>> >> > Robert Chacón
> >>>> >> > CEO | JackRabbit Wireless LLC
> >>>> >> > _______________________________________________
> >>>> >> > LibreQoS mailing list
> >>>> >> > LibreQoS at lists.bufferbloat.net
> >>>> >> > https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/libreqos
> >>>> >>
> >>>> >>
> >>>> >>
> >>>> >> --
> >>>> >> This song goes out to all the folk that thought Stadia would work:
> >>>> >>
> https://www.linkedin.com/posts/dtaht_the-mushroom-song-activity-6981366665607352320-FXtz
> >>>> >> Dave Täht CEO, TekLibre, LLC
> >>>> >> _______________________________________________
> >>>> >> LibreQoS mailing list
> >>>> >> LibreQoS at lists.bufferbloat.net
> >>>> >> https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/libreqos
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> --
> >>>> This song goes out to all the folk that thought Stadia would work:
> >>>>
> https://www.linkedin.com/posts/dtaht_the-mushroom-song-activity-6981366665607352320-FXtz
> >>>> Dave Täht CEO, TekLibre, LLC
> >>>
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> LibreQoS mailing list
> >>> LibreQoS at lists.bufferbloat.net
> >>> https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/libreqos
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> LibreQoS mailing list
> >> LibreQoS at lists.bufferbloat.net
> >> https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/libreqos
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > LibreQoS mailing list
> > LibreQoS at lists.bufferbloat.net
> > https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/libreqos
>
>
>
> --
> This song goes out to all the folk that thought Stadia would work:
>
> https://www.linkedin.com/posts/dtaht_the-mushroom-song-activity-6981366665607352320-FXtz
> Dave Täht CEO, TekLibre, LLC
>
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