[LibreQoS] [Rpm] benton's consumer broadband label prototype

[Sebastian Moeller]

Hi Dan,


> On Oct 26, 2022, at 17:09, dan via Rpm <rpm at lists.bufferbloat.net> wrote:
> 
> Complete fail on a marketing perspective though, this would have to be legislated and then handled by a third party.

	[SM] Well this is not intended to be a marketing tool, but a regulatory tool to make sure the market works to the benefit of society (I understand that market members are incentivized to skew the market mechanism to their advantage, this is why working markets need equally working regulation, just like competitive sports require umpires/referees). So yes legislation might well be required, but that would not be a sign of failure, no?

>  No one is going to put out essentially a warning label that says 'poor' or 'marginal' in any category for a product they sell.  I wouldn't, and we have LTE services to get to people with no other option and they are quite happy, it would be detrimental to hand them a sheet that says that the service is actually 'poor'.

	[SM] True, but e.g. in Germany ISPs are required by law to publish their contracted rates in a pre-described fashion pre-sale and are actually held responsible to some degree to actually deliver the promised rates. (Well, not really, but consumers can get a cost-free right to immediately cancel their contract or reduce their payments commensurate to the under-delivery of the contracted speed*). What happens here is not that ISPs need to disclose shitty service but that the need to declare what they intend to deliver and they are simply held responsible to actually do so**.


*) The first option is already well established and works, the payment reduction part is ATM still being worked out.
**) Unfortunately, the required numbers currently do not include latency under load or even idle latency... there is still work ahead to convince the regulatory agency of that.

> Also, my trust in the government to decide what's good or bad... laughable.

	[SM] Compared to bigger cooperations operating in "free-market" capitalism? Really there is no alternative to government for that purpose...

>    You'd get things like on the example page.  903.5Mbps Median download speed, 811.8 Median upload speed, gaming rating poor and video conferencing marginal, on Fios service.  I know that's an example, but it's so spot on what the government might do...

	[SM] See e.g.:
https://www.bundesnetzagentur.de/SharedDocs/Downloads/DE/Sachgebiete/Telekommunikation/Unternehmen_Institutionen/Anbieterpflichten/Kundenschutz/Transparenzmaßnahmen/templates_for_information_sheets.pdf;jsessionid=0868AE15965FB584C81008C96BA15E4B?__blob=publicationFile&v=1
and
https://www.bundesnetzagentur.de/SharedDocs/Downloads/DE/Sachgebiete/Telekommunikation/Unternehmen_Institutionen/Anbieterpflichten/Kundenschutz/Transparenzmaßnahmen/Instruction_for_drawing_up_PIS.pdf;jsessionid=0868AE15965FB584C81008C96BA15E4B?__blob=publicationFile&v=1

for how something similar might look in practice.

> 
> As an operator, I will not implement this unless forced to and then I'll support lobby efforts to get it removed.

	[SM] Ad that is why we can't have nice things... ;) No really, I agree this needs legislative/regulatory backing/teeth to work, but that is not a failure but simply how our system developed.

Regards
	Sebastian


> 
> On Tue, Oct 25, 2022 at 8:30 PM Dave Taht via LibreQoS <libreqos at lists.bufferbloat.net> wrote:
>  is actually... not bad.
> 
> https://www.benton.org/blog/consumer-driven-broadband-label-design
> 
> -- 
> This song goes out to all the folk that thought Stadia would work:
> https://www.linkedin.com/posts/dtaht_the-mushroom-song-activity-6981366665607352320-FXtz
> Dave Täht CEO, TekLibre, LLC
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