[Make-wifi-fast] RE : [Bloat] Save WiFi from the FCC - DEADLINE is in 3 days *September* 8

Dave Taht dave.taht at gmail.com
Tue Sep 8 03:55:16 EDT 2015

Well, so far there has not been enough technical analysis. It is the
game theory fail that bothers me most - users of LTE spectrum can
encroach upon the wifi bands, and retreat to their own, but wifi users
cannot, and further, cannot even detect when or if lte-u is messing up
their lives, nor complain to a responsible party.

In only one of the two analyses published to date:


They buried the lede here -

"A distinctive aspect of LTE in unlicensed—as compared to other
unlicensed technologies developed to date—is that it is a license­
anchored system that operates simultaneously across licensed and
unlicensed bands. Furthermore, LTE in unlicensed allows traffic to be
moved dynamically, on a per­user and even on a per­traffic flow basis,
across the licensed and unlicensed bands. This makes LTE in unlicensed
substantially less sensitive to interference and collisions in the
unlicensed band, because it is able to move traffic so quickly from
the unlicensed band to the licensed band, in a very granular fashion,
whenever congestion occurs in the unlicensed band. Purely unlicensed
operations, by contrast, can fail entirely if there is interference in
that spectrum. Reduced sensitivity to the conditions in the unlicensed
bands significantly reduces the incentives that designers of LTE in
unlicensed have to develop well­functioning coexistence mechanisms."

secondly, having another user of this spectrum (in addition to the DFS
mess), will make it harder for wifi to continue to evolve. Certainly
we have here a lot of fixes stacked up that will make wifi a lot
better, and future versions of the wifi standards will do better.

I am no fan of the wifi mac, believe me, and if LTE-U was something I
could buy in a store, and hack on, and use for private use, and deploy
any way I wanted, I would probably favor it's deployment. But that is
*not* the case, which is why I am saying that 1) "unlicensed spectrum
= the public's spectrum" and 2) HANDS OFF OUR WIFI to the carriers.

Places like forbes are pitching this as a battle between isps that use
wifi, and the carriers... which bugs me. 5.x ghz is the people's
spectrum, that we should be free to use any way we want... and to make
it faster, easier to use, and more reliable, my goal - LTE-U is a huge
step backwards.

I would like vastly more spectrum opened up to free public use  - the
rules and regs around 24ghz and 60ghz are quite insane and
restrictive, and - for example - I'd like a uhf band opened up for
general use also....

On Sun, Sep 6, 2015 at 2:02 AM,  <luca.muscariello at orange.com> wrote:
> is there any serious study that proves that LTE U is a threat?
> -------- Message d'origine --------
> De : Dave Taht
> Date :2015/09/06 12:06 AM (GMT+01:00)
> À : Rich Brown
> Cc : make-wifi-fast at lists.bufferbloat.net, cerowrt-devel , bloat
> Objet : Re: [Bloat] Save WiFi from the FCC - DEADLINE is in 3 days
> *September* 8
> while the current FCC course sucks, I personally have been unable to
> summon the moxy to fight anymore. Decided to migrate to the eu
> instead, only to find the same ruling going into play here. Is there
> no place left on the planet safe to innovate in?
> and: LTE-U is an even greater threat, and I'm low on ideas on how to counter
> it.
> http://www.wsj.com/articles/cell-carriers-battle-for-wi-fi-airwaves-1440543853
> On Sat, Sep 5, 2015 at 7:12 AM, Rich Brown <richb.hanover at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Folks,
>> Dave may have buried the lede in his previous note... The date for
>> comments
>> to the FCC is not a month away, but only three days away - 8 Sep 2015.
>> To see the talking points for preparing your comments, go to:
>> https://libreplanet.org/wiki/Save_WiFi
>> To submit a comment, click the green "SUBMIT A FORMAL COMMENT" button on
>> https://www.federalregister.gov/articles/2015/08/06/2015-18402/equipment-authorization-and-electronic-labeling-for-wireless-devices
>> Please post a link to your comments when you're done.
>> Rich
>> On Sep 5, 2015, at 6:42 AM, Dave Taht <dave.taht at gmail.com> wrote:
>> In other news:
>> I am glad to see the more political save-the-wifi coming online rapidly:
>> https://libreplanet.org/wiki/Save_WiFi
>> I HAD NO IDEA that the follow-on rules for 2016 would basically ban
>> modifiable firmware entirely, nor that the DFS problem was due to only 41
>> old radars that need to be replaced anyway.
>> Comment deadline for the fcc is sept 8th, not oct 8, which means we should
>> strap ourselves into the writing console, like, today.
> --
> Dave Täht
> endo is a terrible disease: http://www.gofundme.com/SummerVsEndo
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Dave Täht
endo is a terrible disease: http://www.gofundme.com/SummerVsEndo

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