[Make-wifi-fast] make-wifi-fast 3 proposal help?

Mon Jun 3 13:21:35 EDT 2024

Per David Reed, interference is a myth.
<https://www.salon.com/2003/03/12/spectrum/>

*"Interference is a metaphor that paints an old limitation of technology as
a fact of nature." So says David P. Reed, electrical engineer, computer
scientist, and one of the architects of the Internet.*

*Spectrum is more like the colors of the rainbow, including the ones our
eyes can't discern. Says Reed: "There's no scarcity of spectrum any more
than there's a scarcity of the color green. We could instantly hook up to
the Internet everyone who can pick up a radio signal, and they could pump
through as many bits as they could ever want. We'd go from an economy of
digital scarcity to an economy of digital abundance."*

Bob

On Mon, Jun 3, 2024 at 9:55 AM David Lang <david at lang.hm> wrote:

> In most areas, the biggest problem with any wifi in interference from
> other
> users on the same frequencies, having a signal use more bandwidth may seem
> like
> a win, but if everyone is doing it, the user experience is worse for
> everyone.
>
> The current standards let you use up to 160MHz wide channels, which is
> already
> hitting the silly levels unless you are well isolated from everyone else
> in the
> area.
>
> David Lang
>
>
> On Mon, 3 Jun 2024, Bob McMahon via Make-wifi-fast wrote:
>
> > Date: Mon, 3 Jun 2024 09:47:20 -0700
> > From: Bob McMahon via Make-wifi-fast <
> make-wifi-fast at lists.bufferbloat.net>
> > Reply-To: Bob McMahon <bob.mcmahon at broadcom.com>
> > To: Dave Taht <dave.taht at gmail.com>
> > Cc: Make-Wifi-fast <make-wifi-fast at lists.bufferbloat.net>
> > Subject: Re: [Make-wifi-fast] make-wifi-fast 3 proposal help?
> >
> > I think separating the remote radio heads from the fronthaul concentrator
> > enables software defined radios to some extent. In the most simple case,
> > the radio heads send its DAC over the 100Gb/s serial. I think the
> practical
> > max bandwidth for wide band is 500MHz so sampling at Nyquist would align
> > with 1000 MHz and could be carried over a 100Gb/s serial link. This is
> > analogous to the PHY split in DAA.
> >
> > The challenge with a PHY split is that the MAC/PHY interactions have a
> > latency minimum.  eCPRI sets the max latency to 100 usecs over the
> > fronthaul link. DAA gives a MAC split option too so the PHY/MAC can be
> > colocated on the same die or board.
> >
> > My thoughts are that Wi-Fi Multilink Operation (MLO) is a game changer,
> > even without fronthaul networks, per the many radios mapping to one
> > "system" MAC. Multiple radios over spacetime should improve Wi-Fi
> > responsiveness significantly. The break between a lower MAC and upper MAC
> > defined per MLO seems to be a natural break between the fronthaul
> > concentrator and the remote radio head.
> >
> > I think we need to move off the Sun workstation and FreeBSD model. That
> was
> > done in the 1970s or so. Transitioning to hardware and providing some
> form
> > of software defined radios seems a good attempt and exceptional
> > improvements.
> >
> > Bob
> >
> >
> > On Sun, Jun 2, 2024 at 5:17 PM Dave Taht <dave.taht at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >> As I am doing, also, would be to submit to a grant process from
> somewhere
> >> - ardc is who I am targeting primarily with my proposal, but nlnet has
> been
> >> a consistent funder, and (sometimes), comcast. I keep hoping the telecom
> >> infrastructure project gains clue with their openwifi group - but far
> too
> >> few overall can understand the vision you have. I was hoping that now
> that
> >> enough people knew that starlink had gone fq_codel that there would be a
> >> rush to implement - but noooooo....
> >>
> >> and you want to go waaaay beyond that. I think talking about where you
> >> want to go in front of 802.11 would be a great place to start. I was
> >> planning on attending netdevconf in san jose in mid july, the next
> 802.11
> >> wg meeting is in montreal
> >>
> >>
> https://web.cvent.com/event/64f6931c-b20d-44af-a54e-4830fa2f7097/summary
> >>
> >>
> >> On Sun, Jun 2, 2024 at 5:11 PM Bob McMahon <bob.mcmahon at broadcom.com>
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >>> I'm interested in group designing an open API or equivalent over a high
> >>> speed serial/digital interface to drive a remote Wi-Fi lower MAC,
> digital
> >>> PHY, analog PHY, CMOS radio(s) and front end modules. The upper MAC
> would
> >>> reside in the fronthaul concentrator and be remote, supporting up to
> 48 MAC
> >>> lowers. Hopefully scale to maybe to higher.  Basically, Wi-Fi goes
> point to
> >>> point into the fronthaul concentrator, i.e. following the evolution of
> >>> ethernet switching but without the CAT 5 for the final leash.
> >>>
> >>> The L2TPv3 w/pseudowires used for eCRPI are an analogy. So is DAA of
> >>> cable plant OSP.
> >>>
> >>> Assume the seriali interface speed is  a minimum of 10Gb/s but will go
> to
> >>> 100Gb/s and then likely to 800b/s.  All at very low power and guiding
> the
> >>> photons to/from their destinations with last meter wireless.
> >>>
> >>> WiFi control and 802.11 packets would be carried over this interface.
> >>>
> >>> Can't be a NIC/sun workstation model on these remote radio heads
> >>> requiring expensive CPUs and way too much power. This will also isolate
> >>> WiFi radios from  the SoCs and the internal switches, typically found
> in
> >>> todays' APs, which is a bit of a Frankenstein design the industry has
> >>> adopted for some unknown reasons.
> >>>
> >>> Bob
> >>>
> >>> On Sun, Jun 2, 2024 at 4:45 PM Dave Taht via Make-wifi-fast <
> >>> make-wifi-fast at lists.bufferbloat.net> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> There is HUGE NSF grant coming available concerning wifi, and I was
> also
> >>>> thinking that applying to ardc might be an option.
> >>>>
> >>>> Does anyone here still care enough about wifi to want to participate?
> In
> >>>> my case I would like to gear up mainly to get into and stay
> >>>> in the wifi8 standardization process in the IEEE, although I am
> >>>> surfacing to fix some bugs and try to make improvements in the mt79
> chipset
> >>>> which is thus far, pretty amazing. I am really pleased with OpenWrt
> on this
> >>>> chip, so far. An OpenWrt one should be arriving any day....
> >>>>
> >>>> Anyway, a start at a proposal for ardc is here:
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1x2HBYmSJbMoVMbLzKgkOVSvMnIFZdJQE823Jlg0mfX0/edit?usp=sharing
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> --
> >>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BVFWSyMp3xg&t=1098s Waves Podcast
> >>>> Dave Täht CSO, LibreQos
> >>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>> Make-wifi-fast mailing list
> >>>> Make-wifi-fast at lists.bufferbloat.net
> >>>> https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/make-wifi-fast
> >>>
> >>>
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> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BVFWSyMp3xg&t=1098s Waves Podcast
> >> Dave Täht CSO, LibreQos
> >>
> >
> >_______________________________________________
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