<div dir="auto">Hmmm... wonder what Jim Salter's schedule book looks like? ;-)<div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">I was also hoping for a recent evaluation of the recent developments... Heck, I've been waiting for a retake on Jim's articles on rolling your own router on Ars Technia, using OpenWrt and it performed admirably, but I think it was before v16! Probably more than time for a re evaluation, with newer Cake and etc... as well as evaluating the make-wifi-fast stuff on the AP side of things...</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">Whaddya think Tim? Is Jim burnt out on routers and wifi, or am I on to something? ;-)</div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Thu, May 28, 2020, 9:00 AM <<a href="mailto:make-wifi-fast-request@lists.bufferbloat.net">make-wifi-fast-request@lists.bufferbloat.net</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">Send Make-wifi-fast mailing list submissions to<br>
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Today's Topics:<br>
<br>
1. Re: REPOSTED: SmallNetBuilder Article: Does OFDMA really<br>
work? Part 2 (Bob McMahon)<br>
2. Re: REPOSTED: SmallNetBuilder Article: Does OFDMA really<br>
work? Part 2 (Tim Higgins)<br>
3. R7800 & openwrt and smallnetbuilder (Dave Taht)<br>
<br><br><br>---------- Forwarded message ----------<br>From: Bob McMahon <<a href="mailto:bob.mcmahon@broadcom.com" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">bob.mcmahon@broadcom.com</a>><br>To: Tim Higgins <<a href="mailto:tim@smallnetbuilder.com" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">tim@smallnetbuilder.com</a>><br>Cc: Make-Wifi-fast <<a href="mailto:make-wifi-fast@lists.bufferbloat.net" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">make-wifi-fast@lists.bufferbloat.net</a>><br>Bcc: <br>Date: Wed, 27 May 2020 10:16:23 -0700<br>Subject: Re: [Make-wifi-fast] REPOSTED: SmallNetBuilder Article: Does OFDMA really work? Part 2<br><div dir="ltr">I would make a small packet run too. For iperf2 use -l 40 and -b 20000pps and vary the pps number. I would hope that OFDMA would increase this. <br><br>Also, don't forget about jitter - the derivative of latency. Some protocols care more about jitter than they do latency. <br><br>I'd look into measuring the actual latency and jitter of the traffic vs using a ping as a proxy. This will be supported in iperf 2.0.14 using the write (server) side clock and --write-ack. Better though is to synchronize the clocks and use one way trip times. While I like to synchronize the realtime clocks to the GPS atomic clock as the reference, using PTP and synchronizing to a common reference of any PC oscillator may be good enough. PTP stats will give you errors and corrections and per the corrections one can get an idea of the error.<br><br>Thanks for posting. I really don't think OFDMA is going to affect such large latencies in a noticeable manner. I think it will be the ultra low latencies or near zero queuing that will matter. For data center switches this is driven mostly by high frequency traders. For WiFi it's going to be newer games with VR/AR. Those latencies are going to need to be very low compared to today's use cases.<br><br>my $0.02,<br><br>Bob</div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Wed, May 27, 2020 at 7:37 AM Tim Higgins <<a href="mailto:tim@smallnetbuilder.com" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">tim@smallnetbuilder.com</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div>
<font size="-1" face="Times New Roman, Times, serif">Tests have been
redone and article is back up.<br>
===========================<br>
Hi All,<br>
<br>
This article uses the benchmark test described in Part 1 to test 6
Wi-Fi consumer routers. Results are not impressive.<br>
<a href="https://www.smallnetbuilder.com/wireless/wireless-features/33223-does-ofdma-really-work-part-2" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">https://www.smallnetbuilder.com/wireless/wireless-features/33223-does-ofdma-really-work-part-2</a><br>
</font>
<div><br>
<div><font size="-1" face="Times New Roman, Times, serif">===========<br>
Tim <br>
</font></div>
</div>
</div>
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<br><br><br>---------- Forwarded message ----------<br>From: Tim Higgins <<a href="mailto:tim@smallnetbuilder.com" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">tim@smallnetbuilder.com</a>><br>To: Bob McMahon <<a href="mailto:bob.mcmahon@broadcom.com" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">bob.mcmahon@broadcom.com</a>><br>Cc: Make-Wifi-fast <<a href="mailto:make-wifi-fast@lists.bufferbloat.net" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">make-wifi-fast@lists.bufferbloat.net</a>><br>Bcc: <br>Date: Thu, 28 May 2020 10:22:04 -0400<br>Subject: Re: [Make-wifi-fast] REPOSTED: SmallNetBuilder Article: Does OFDMA really work? Part 2<br>
<div>
<font size="-1" face="Times New Roman, Times, serif">Hi Bob,<br>
<br>
Thanks for the suggestions. The iper2 suggests are for UDP,
correct?<br>
<br>
As I said in the article, I'm done hunting this snark for now.
Maybe others will take up the challenge.<br>
</font>
<div>
<div><font size="-1" face="Times New Roman, Times, serif">===========<br>
Tim <br>
</font></div>
</div>
<div>On 5/27/2020 1:16 PM, Bob McMahon
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">I would make a small packet run too. For iperf2 use
-l 40 and -b 20000pps and vary the pps number. I would hope that
OFDMA would increase this. <br>
<br>
Also, don't forget about jitter - the derivative of latency.
Some protocols care more about jitter than they do latency. <br>
<br>
I'd look into measuring the actual latency and jitter of the
traffic vs using a ping as a proxy. This will be supported in
iperf 2.0.14 using the write (server) side clock and
--write-ack. Better though is to synchronize the clocks and use
one way trip times. While I like to synchronize the
realtime clocks to the GPS atomic clock as the reference, using
PTP and synchronizing to a common reference of any PC oscillator
may be good enough. PTP stats will give you errors and
corrections and per the corrections one can get an idea of the
error.<br>
<br>
Thanks for posting. I really don't think OFDMA is going to
affect such large latencies in a noticeable manner. I think it
will be the ultra low latencies or near zero queuing that will
matter. For data center switches this is driven mostly by high
frequency traders. For WiFi it's going to be newer games with
VR/AR. Those latencies are going to need to be very low compared
to today's use cases.<br>
<br>
my $0.02,<br>
<br>
Bob</div>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Wed, May 27, 2020 at 7:37
AM Tim Higgins <<a href="mailto:tim@smallnetbuilder.com" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">tim@smallnetbuilder.com</a>>
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div> <font size="-1" face="Times New Roman, Times, serif">Tests
have been redone and article is back up.<br>
===========================<br>
Hi All,<br>
<br>
This article uses the benchmark test described in Part 1
to test 6 Wi-Fi consumer routers. Results are not
impressive.<br>
<a href="https://www.smallnetbuilder.com/wireless/wireless-features/33223-does-ofdma-really-work-part-2" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">https://www.smallnetbuilder.com/wireless/wireless-features/33223-does-ofdma-really-work-part-2</a><br>
</font>
<div><br>
<div><font size="-1" face="Times New Roman, Times, serif">===========<br>
Tim <br>
</font></div>
</div>
</div>
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</div>
</blockquote>
<br>
</div>
<br><br><br>---------- Forwarded message ----------<br>From: Dave Taht <<a href="mailto:dave.taht@gmail.com" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">dave.taht@gmail.com</a>><br>To: Make-Wifi-fast <<a href="mailto:make-wifi-fast@lists.bufferbloat.net" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">make-wifi-fast@lists.bufferbloat.net</a>><br>Cc: <br>Bcc: <br>Date: Thu, 28 May 2020 08:28:05 -0700<br>Subject: [Make-wifi-fast] R7800 & openwrt and smallnetbuilder<br>I see that the R7800 is tim's goto router. I have one in a box... somewhere...<br>
<br>
A benchmark between the stock R7800 firmware and openwrt 19.03 on it<br>
would be nice to have. So far as I know<br>
most of the offloads are in 19.03. However, the work ongoing on the<br>
ath10k is pretty relevant, so A to B to C<br>
would be a good shower of progress.<br>
<br>
I figure tim is burned out totally on benchmarking wifi routers and is<br>
off restoring his karma by planting a garden or hopefully something<br>
relaxing like that(?), but I did manage to get most of my lab<br>
reassembled over the past few weeks.<br>
<br>
<br>
-- <br>
"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public<br>
relations, for Mother Nature cannot be fooled" - Richard Feynman<br>
<br>
<a href="mailto:dave@taht.net" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">dave@taht.net</a> <Dave Täht> CTO, TekLibre, LLC Tel: 1-831-435-0729<br>
<br>
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